279: How to Break Free and Live Your Fullest Life at Any Age with Greg Scheinman

In this episode of The Light Watkins Show, Light sits down with Greg Scheinman, founder of Midlife Male, for a powerful conversation about navigating and thriving in midlife. Greg, now on his second appearance, opens up about his journey from burnout and unfulfillment to creating a life centered around purpose, health, and joy.

Greg shares how, despite outward success—career achievements, family life, and financial stability—he found himself exhausted, unhealthy, and disconnected. It wasn’t one dramatic moment that sparked change but a series of eye-opening realizations: his best friend’s daughter drawing his birthday card in the shape of a tequila bottle, the dread of walking into his corner office, and the creeping weight gain that led to buying bigger pants. These moments pushed Greg to reexamine his life and embrace what he now calls the Six F’s: Family, Fitness, Finance, Food, Fashion, and Fun.

Light and Greg dive into what it really means to "maximize midlife" without falling for the cliché advice to quit everything and chase your passion. Instead, Greg emphasizes the power of building a life around personal standards, not external expectations. They discuss how discipline—not motivation—creates lasting success, why planning for your "average busy day" beats waiting for the perfect conditions, and how small, consistent changes lead to big results.

Whether you're navigating a career pivot, improving your health, or simply seeking more meaning in midlife, this conversation offers practical insights and relatable stories to inspire your next step forward.

Transcript

GS: “I was tired. I was exhausted. I think that really came from the conformity and the complacency and the redundancy of how I was living. My priorities were out of order. Chasing the salary and the title and the deals and the bigger book of business and the comparison and competitiveness that comes along with a lot of that. it didn't feel so good and I was drinking too much and I was neglecting my health. And these are the things when you take that good hard long look in the mirror every morning and you start putting on clothes that don't feel right to you. And you start going to places that don't feel great to you. And you're spending too much time around individuals or events or experiences that you're not really looking forward to. This is the stuff that really takes a toll on you. And that's what was happening to me. So it wasn't cancer. It wasn't alcoholism to the extent that I was checking myself into rehab. It wasn't financial strife that we weren't able to pay the bills. It wasn't even that there was anything wrong with my firm. These were the things that I was struggling with. It was all me.”

[INTRODUCTION]

Back for his second appearance on the podcast is Greg Scheinman, who's the founder of Midlife Mail, a pioneering platform that is dedicated to helping men navigate and thrive in their middle years. So Greg made his first appearance on the podcast back in 2022 and that's where we unpacked his backstory.

And in this episode, we dove deeper into Greg's philosophy on optimizing midlife by focusing on what he calls the six F's family, fitness, finance, food, fashion, and of course, fun. Let's dive in. 

[00:01:46] LW: Greg Scheinman, welcome back to the podcast, man. It's good to see you again,

[00:01:50] GS: Light. Thanks for having me. It's great to be back. I appreciate it, buddy.

[00:01:53] LW: man. I'm a big fan of everything that you're doing. Um, I really love the magazine initiative. I, I, you, I think today is the day you work on your magazines on Fridays.

[00:02:05] GS: Exactly. Yes. So as soon as we get off this call, I had the final editorial proof call of the week and then it goes out every Sunday morning.

[00:02:15] LW: Okay. So you're not the one on Photoshop putting together this stuff. You've got a team of people working. 

[00:02:20] GS: no. So I have a very, very small team, you know, this is, this is evolution and growth. And one of the things I say is that that progress is a process. Years ago, when I first was conceptualizing and starting what midlife male is still evolving and growing into. I had magazine covers, you know, on my vision board, and I had GQ and Esquire and Men's Health and Outside and Men's Journal and The Atlantic and all these, and these, beautiful covers that were out there. And, you know, the vision that I had was I want to have a magazine, you know, by midlife men for midlife men about all the things that I'm interested in. And quite frankly, all the things that I feel these publications have left behind. Where they've shifted into probably on my soapbox, have bigger biceps over 40. You know, they'll just tag that stuff on there, but it's really the same article when it's written by a guy in his twenties or now AI or something like that. But I had this vision for a magazine for midlife men that went. Narrow and deep that explored these topics of family and fitness and finance and food and fashion and fun in a manner that felt relatable and credible and also aspirational for me, which was coming from a lot of men whose names are not known by by almost anybody in the general public, you know, so it wasn't about that sensationalist a lister celebrity or athlete and all that. We get a lot of those right now, which is awesome. Mhm. But also the real, the real guys, you know, that, that you can go, I see light and I can, I can do, I can kind of be that I can get into that. Um, so long answer, but the way we got to this digital magazine format years later was me when it was a newsletter, writing it myself in my backyard. Putting it out there in straight textual form, having trouble cutting and pasting photos and all that. It didn't look like what it looks like today. And now I have this small and amazing team with, with Nick and John and Kirk and the four and the four of us get together and we put it together, but nobody wants me pushing the buttons on Photoshop or anything technical at all.

[00:04:41] LW: is it mostly, um, an e magazine, right?

[00:04:45] GS: Yes.

[00:04:46] LW: Because it looks like it could be a print magazine the way you present it with the 

[00:04:49] GS: Thank you. That again. Also, the idea was that we wanted great photography. We

didn't want it to pose. We want these photos to come from the men and their families themselves, both on the kind of inside and outside. So it's designed to look like a physical magazine. And when you open it in your inbox every Sunday, you're turning the pages as you scroll through.

I mean, this Sunday's Issue I got is 4, 000 words and like even my editor John is like, we have a 4, 000 word newsletter right now.

[00:05:24] LW: Yeah, it's beautiful man. Also, you know, when you have people like Troy Aikman on the cover and you have Garth on the cover and Jason and a lot of like recognizable faces Chip Connelly. It, you know, who doesn't want to be on the cover of magazine? So it's such an easier sell when you're wanting to interview people, right?

To show them, look, these are the covers. It's just like really quick. It's it's I'd be surprised if you're not getting quick yeses from people who you reach out to about being featured in the magazine. Yeah,

[00:05:56] GS: a good point here for, for a few reasons. First of all, I'm grateful for the Chip Connelly's and the, and the Dr. Garth Davis's and, and the Troy Aikman's of, of the world who have given me permission and access. To talk to them and invite us all into their worlds. And I think answer a lot of questions that they haven't been asked and answered anywhere else. I wanted the generosity of Troy Aikman to talk to me and go to a place that is very different. I don't want to have a football conversation with Troy Aikman. I'm not qualified to have a football conversation with Troy Aikman. It's been done a thousand times, you know, before. The conversation we want to have is Troy Aikman as a husband, as a father, as a man. What he puts on his body, what he puts in his body at 57, he's 57 years old right now. Being in better shape than when he played the game. You know, his struggles, his failures, his success, what we call how I see it. You know, how these men see it in there. So, you know, that's amazing. To your point about getting yeses, The yeses have come. Because there have been so many no's. yes's are not easy. The yes's are, you know, like they say, the 10 year overnight success. You know, the yes's, Troy, Troy was years, years until we got that finally scheduled. Of, of developing rapport and credibility and trust. You know, Chip was like that too, and then invited me down to Modern Elder Academy. Garth became a friend living in Houston that we related to through our, through our kids being in school together. You know, so I just want to point out that to anybody who's out there at any age or stage of life when you are starting something or anything, no is going to be what you hear most. And if you look at so many of the earlier guests, and this is why I'm so thankful and so grateful to those men too, you're What do you go after?

You go after the low hanging fruit first. Your friends, your family, the person who knows somebody that knows somebody that you could get to, you know, right away. And that's how you also become a better interviewer. That's how you build momentum. That's how I think you hone your craft. That's it. So, you know, my, my gratitude for those men who allowed me. To be so shitty at what I was doing, sorry if I can say it, to like, to just be like such a novice and to just be testing and retesting and trying and seeing where this goes because, you know, now, yeah, I'm fortunate to be getting more yeses than no, more invitations and, and, and that's fantastic. And at the same time, really trying to preserve and enhance the brand with this combination. Of, of the Troys and the Garths and the Chips with again, some of the names that, that the general public would not know and somewhat utilize the, the celeb or the topical or the, you know what I mean, like the known as an also way to introduce some of the new and different and, ooh, thank you. Greg, Midlife Mail.

We hope to be a brand and a, and, and as, as a person, I hope to be somebody who amplifies other individuals, platforms, and introduces other people, product places, things, experiences to men so that they go, okay, that's where I'm getting my information from because that information is valuable and that information is real. And I didn't know that before, or I hadn't heard that before.

[00:09:48] LW: there's so much in there. Um, you know, when I started my podcast, it's initially started under the name at the end of the tunnel and it was geared towards people who started movements for social good, right? Because that's what I was passionate. I'm still very passionate about those stories. It's kind of evolved into people who found their purpose and who are doing things that light them up inside.

But initially, everybody, a lot of, you know, big celebrities, they all have a, Well, I don't say they all, but a lot of them have causes that they care about, but traditional media, even traditional podcast hosts don't care about those kinds of causes. So that sort of became my niche and I just love how, you know, you, you focused in on the men in their midlife forties fifties.

I mean, chip talks about this a lot, how a lot of times we feel irrelevant or we feel invisible. And I'm putting myself in that category because you and I are the exact same age. Um, and so creating an outlet for that gives you a unique invitation to those people when you, when you do reach out to them, even though it may take, you know, however many months or whatever for them to say that.

Yes. And you do need the sort of starter logs, uh, guests that are going to take a while to get them over the line. But then once people see that, oh, Okay. Cool. You've interviewed, you know, these five people. I know these people, you know, and, and then, but it's more the way you present them too. Like there are no details that are too small when you are creating something like what you're creating, because it all adds to what you're, what you're going to be with those yeses.

You're going to be getting next year and they're going to be coming faster and faster and faster.

[00:11:30] GS: hope so. And these are the things that I want to know. It's not about promoting the next book or the next movie or, or we're taking our company public or the fourth quarter earnings report or any, it, it, there's no I agenda for that. And certainly time wise, I'm happy, of course, always to support the individuals that come on with what their initiatives are that they want to talk about what they want to do. But it's really much more about, hey, what do you want to talk about? What's really important to you? What is maximizing midlife feel like look like taste like to you that that is, that is interesting. And and because I was Transcribed We're focused on these, these middle aged men, what also is often happening in that they're in these different periods.

They're in these different periods of personal growth and evolution. For athletes, they've been retired for a while, in middle age. You know, you talk about athletes and musicians and celebrities and a number of the actors that I've talked to. They were child actors, teen actors. Big in their 20s, and they get to this spot in their 30s, 40s, and ultimately 50s, and how, again, do you grow and how do you evolve? And this happens for, for all men. My, myself certainly included, which was the impetus for this all happening, you know, in my, in my 40s. Where do we want to go? What do we want to do? The changes in our lives, whether that's corporate, you know. You know, personal, professional, emotional, spiritual, financial, been married longer, maybe we've been divorced, our kids are getting older, we don't have them, have we missed windows of opportunity, are we squandering opportunities, are we seizing and looking to seize other opportunities in, in the future, so I just love that it's all on the table. And that's where I think the depth and the richness in all of it is. And at the same time, man, like I'm extremely shallow. Like I want to know who makes your t shirt. Okay. I want to know like what skincare products you use. I want to know how like your head is not shiny. Like mine is all the time. Like I want to know what they eat for breakfast and the cars that they drive. I want to know, give me the answers for the test. So I can say like, Hey, Okay, I'll try that, or I can look at that, or that's cool, that works for him, but it doesn't work for me. We've all got the same 24 hours in the day, and seven days in a week, and I'm just really in, in kind of insatiably curious about how other people do things. And some make it look so effortless and, and make it look so good. You know, let's, let's peel it all back. Let's talk about all of it.

[00:14:15] LW: All right. So I do want to, we, we last spoke in 2022, I think it was September of 2022. I'm sure a lot has happened since then. 

[00:14:23] GS: Wow. It's been that long. Okay.

[00:14:25] LW: it's been that long. Yeah. And uh, so can you just give us for the, the great thing about doing a second plus interview is that we've done your deep dive backstory talking about the little card table that you met, you know, 

[00:14:39] GS: Hmm. 

[00:14:40] LW: uh, it's in and that just 

[00:14:42] GS: Uh, 

[00:14:42] LW: that

[00:14:44] GS: yeah, Michael, absolutely.

[00:14:46] LW: so people can go back and listen to that and get caught up Okay.

On, um, on how you sort of became the midlife male guy. But just give us a little summary, a little montage of your life story for the new listener who that may entice them to go back and listen to your original story.

[00:15:09] GS: I'll try to give you the two, the two minute version. If we hit the clock, you know, and said, okay, can you, can you do the elevator pitch in two, two minutes? Um, so. I grew up, I grew up privileged. I grew up privileged on the north shore of Long Island and the ideal family, mom, dad, incredibly close with my dad, two younger brothers, and unfortunately my father got cancer and passed away when he was 47 years old and I was.

I was 17 and just leaving for college, um, or I mean started, started college and everything changed at that point. Um, I was reckless and lost throughout my college years. I thought I wanted to be in the film business coming out of school because it sounded exciting and reckless and there was no family business to be in anymore and I didn't have to put on a suit. And I landed at Miramax Films and I ended up running Harvey Weinstein's office for two years, um, 30 years before the Me Too era. And I have the distinction of telling him to F off 30 years before the rest of the world did. I did produce a few movies. Be careful what you wish for. It wasn't what I wanted to do with my life.

I didn't particularly enjoy that, that as a profession. Got mad. What was great is, uh, I met my wife, Kate. in LA when I was out there selling an independent film that I had produced and she was born and raised in Houston, Texas, and we got married and decided that Houston, Texas was going to be home and that 1200 miles seemed like a good distance for me from, from where I came from. Started a children's sports video production company called Team Baby Entertainment and went from selling DVDs out of the trunk of my car to selling that company to Michael Eisner like you mentioned. And then bottomed out. That market collapsed. DVDs turned to apps and all our vendors went away and then paediatricians started telling parents not to put their kids in front of television sets, you know, for all day. And, and I had to really start over and all I knew was risk taking. So I did the exact opposite, figured if all those things weren't really working and I was bottoming out, I didn't know what to do next. And now I have two kids and a wife and a mortgage and cars and private school tuitions and all of these things. Um, I went into the risk management business of all things. I invested in an insurance and risk management company. And we ultimately. That firm grew from 45 to 200 people, and not that I had a huge part in that, but built a multi million dollar book of business and changed the way I did things, and found myself at 47 now really unfulfilled. At this intersection of personal passion and professional expertise and didn't really know where I was, and I was the same age as when my dad died, and I decided that was when I was going to start making some changes. And we ultimately sold the firm and that gave me an opportunity to sit in my backyard and from 47 to 50 interview. Hundreds of the highest performing middle aged men in the world

[00:18:17] LW: You created that opportunity.

[00:18:21] GS: Yeah, that was one thing that, that, that, I will say this. I don't think I'm good at a lot of things. You know, a lot doesn't come up, but, but I'm good at creating opportunity. I haven't always been great at realizing the fullest potential of those opportunities, but I've been good and somewhat fearless and fearful at the same time of taking that shot and creating an opportunity. And I wanted to learn. And I wanted to continue to learn and I knew that I did not have the answers and I went looking for men ideally that, that may know more than me. And I was not where I was not good as I'm not good at asking for help. good at the therapy. I'm not good at the woo woo. I'm not good at the talking stick in a circle, you know, like I'm not. So this was a way for me to selfishly try to get what I wanted. Access and get information and get the therapy and get the talking and get on without looking weak and vulnerable. I was now obligated as a host, as a writer, to ask these questions. So it was selfish at first, because this is what I wanted.

And then I started writing about my experiences of taking what I learned from all these individuals. How to be a better husband, how to be a better father, how to get in better shape. What I deemed my six F's. Family, fitness, finance, food, fashion, fun. The areas that I wanted to improve on in my life. And over three years of Talking, and listening, and applying, and learning, and aggregating, and curating, and then eliminating. That really became the platform of Midlife Mail. And that turned into the book, which has evolved into the newsletter, the community, the coaching. And now what really looks at, uh, looks and is this, this digital magazine, is realization of that our covers look, I think, better than What I had on my vision board, you know, to begin with the men that we put on our covers the people that are there I get a different feeling from that and I hope our readers do too than what they're seeing in out in the marketplace And we can disrupt and we can differentiate ourselves and I believe that there's power in this niche this underserved niche and demographic and You know, now I'm just really grateful and fortunate that this is what I get to do now.

People ask me what I do for fun and I say this is what I do for fun. I come on and talk to my Watkins. I, I will talk to Dr. Adam Dorsey after this. You rattle off those names of men. And some of them have been on your show as well. This is what I do for fun. I just got back from Nashville with the Impact 11 crew.

And I know you know so many of those people as well. And it's not that I do that much public speaking and I'm chasing bigger stages and bigger fees. That's really not me. What I am chasing is I'm chasing stories. I'm chasing, I'm chasing fulfillment. And to be around interesting people that fill my tank rather than drain it. and and that's an area like I go to Impact because it Fills my brain and my mind, like those are muscles that need to get reps also, not just in the gym. So, that's the story.

[00:21:54] LW: Beautiful. So you said around 47, you realize you were unfulfilled and I just want to double click on that because for those listening to this who may have some symptoms of, but not quite sure what that even looks like these days because there's so many contradicting opinions about this online. This idea that you need to quit everything and follow your passion if you feel a certain way, what were the symptoms that you were experiencing at that time that you realized maybe in hindsight that, oh, I was unfulfilled, but maybe even in the moment you didn't realize that's exactly what it was because you had the money.

[00:22:34] GS: From the outside looking in, yes. The beautiful wife, the beautiful kids, the house, the job, all of those things. I was exhausted. I don't think I said this on the first show, like, the number one, the main thing was I was exhausted. And, and, what I found was that Chasing authenticity, where authenticity doesn't exist, is exhausting. And I was in a very inauthentic place, and now one of my things, it's even on my wall, it's like, Don't say authentic. Don't say, don't use authenticity. It's become this big buzzword, it's out there all the time. If you are truly authentic, then you just act that way, you live that way, you are that way. You don't need to say it. It's like starting a sentence with, I'll be honest with you.

[00:23:24] LW: Mhm.

[00:23:27] GS: Should I assume you're usually not? Okay. And if you're, if you're honest, you're honest, you don't need to start the sentence that if you're truthful, you don't need to start the sentence with the truth is,

or let me tell you, it just is. So the number one thing was I was tired.

I was exhausted. And I think that that really came from the conformity and the complacency and the redundancy of how I was living. My priorities were out of order. Chasing the salary and the title and the deals and the bigger book of business and the comparison and competitiveness that comes along with a lot of that.

And it didn't feel so good and I was drinking too much and I was neglecting my health. And these are the things when you take that good hard long look in the mirror every morning and you start putting on clothes that don't feel right to you. And you start going to places that don't feel great to you. And you're spending too much time around individuals or events or experiences that you're not really looking forward to. This is the stuff that really takes a toll on you. And that's what was happening to me.

So it wasn't cancer. It wasn't alcoholism to the extent that I was checking myself into rehab. It wasn't financial strife that we weren't able to pay the bills. It wasn't even that there was anything wrong with my firm. These were the things that I was struggling with. It was all me. And what I came up with was stop blaming people. Stop with all the resentment. Stop with the anger and the frustration and the people are out to get you, you know, or that we're screwing you over here. You're not getting the promotion or you're not getting more stock options or the client is raking you over the coals and they're shopping your prices and you can't, you don't have time to go to the gym and you got to take this call and now I can't make it to my kid's game and all that and come home and I've got to pour myself that tequila.

And I say, I'm only having one drink, but the one drink I pour myself is. Three drinks worth of alcohol. You just keep doing this and you get to a point. At least I did. You said today's just a day. I'm going to start doing things differently.

[00:26:04] LW: And nothing happened when you got to that point. There was no movie you saw. There was no conversation you had. I know that your best friend's daughter gave you the card. Is that what was the moment? What was like that moment?

[00:26:15] GS: were a series of tipping point moments for sure. and, but I will say that it wasn't just one. There was not just one, the lights went off, you know, Oh my good. Like this just happened. Now I'm going to be this. I just dodged that bullet. Boom. Okay. I'll never do that again. And I'll do this. It was a series of them. Over years. It was my friend's daughter drawing my birthday card in the shape of a bottle of Patron tequila. It definitely resonated with me that I'm drinking too much if she associates me with tequila. It was my 10 year anniversary with my firm sitting in the parking lot in my reserved partner spot, looking at the building and knowing my office is on the 25th floor, overlooking all of downtown, and not wanting to get out of the fucking car and go inside. You know, it was getting turned down to manage, you know, the Little League All Star team. After. Winning the district the year before. It was all these straight, it was a circus of events. It was a circus of events. It was buying bigger pants. Wait a minute, I'm not a 32 waist anymore? When did 30, like when, when, did buyer bigger pants become the solution to my problem?

The answer is not buying bigger pants. It's realizing you keep adding weight. When do you stop and say, the answer is getting your ass into the gym? When do you put the tequila down? When do you say no to taking that client out for the 40th dinner that keeps you out to, you know, 2 o'clock in the morning? So that you now can't get up at 6 to get to the gym? You know, these are decisions and choices.

[00:28:16] LW: So I want to, I want to, I want to interject something into here. You've been married. I think you're probably, you know, we're, we're sort of in that last generation of people who probably will be married for decades. You've been married mhm. You've been together for almost 30 years, married, I think, for 25 years or so.

[00:28:33] GS: coming up on, coming up on 25, yeah.

[00:28:35] LW: So, as you're going through all of this, what's, what's the dynamic like with your wife? Is she supporting you? Is she, cause you know, women are really good at like, intuitive, intuitively pointing things out. You drinking a little too much, Greg, or, you know, how do you feel about your job? You don't seem that happy.

Like, were you hearing, was that, A, was that happening? B, were you hearing it? And C, is there something that a partner can do for their spouse that can support the incubation of this sort of, you know, the, as, as, as Chip calls it, the chrysalis phase going from the caterpillar to the butterfly of midlife and 

[00:29:17] GS: Okay. I think we're good. So here's the difference, or one of the differences, between Chip and I, okay? And, and Chip is great. I love him. Come on. I'm

[00:29:26] LW: Other than the obvious difference, 

[00:29:28] GS: better. Cheers. I hear Caterpillar to Butterfly, and Chrysalis, and all this, and like, I fucking pucker up. I'm sorry. I do, like, Because I'm an angry, like I have pent up anger and aggression and a chip on my shoulder and all of these, these things and, and weaving some of the, some of the softness into that, you know, and modulating those things are really, really challenging for me. So, I know this too, like every, like, even with Kate, with my wife, who is unbelievable in this, because I have put her on a roller coaster, like we've been, I mean, of this. Where I go first, you know, on it is I'm not being supported. I'm not being appreciated. I'm doing all of these things. I'm making all this money.

I'm working this hard. I'm putting everybody ahead of myself. You, the kids, the tuition, everything. What about me? What about me? When do I get my appreciation? You know, when do I get my initiation of affection? And like when, where's, where's the, the thing, I have a chapter even in my book that's like feed us and fuck us, okay, like what do I want, I want to be like, like what do I really need to be happy, like, it's not that hard, like, for me. And, and what I've realized and what I've learned is that even like when I get like that, that that's not true. I just haven't been that she is there and the kids are there and all of that is there and that again, I, I miss it a lot of times I miss it because I'm so caught up in the momentum. I'm so caught up in the more and it's more is easy getting going after more.

What's hard is simple. What's hard is doing less with more focus. What's hard is noticing the love and the appreciation and the guidance and the other the little things. Yeah. That she's doing for me, for our family, for us. So, I'm really working on, continuing to work on, after all of these, these years, and we have a really, a really good relationship, but we also have a very, hey, like, she's a very independent person. She knows who she is. I've always struggled with figuring out who I am and what's important. And I say, knowing what's important is what's most important. The reason that's rule number one for me is for that, because that's really hard. Like, that's enough for me to focus on every day. What's really important?

And do that. Focus on that. Who's really important? Focus on them. Keep giving to them. So, we have a really, really close relationship, but I think we also have this very independent relationship. And mutual respect for one another and appreciation for each other's differences that are there that she also allows when I go off and some of these other pity self pity parties and, and, and anger and frustration start to boil that she knows also, and I know this too, like, he'll get past, he'll get over it. this is my way of, you know, I'll go to the gym, I'll blow off some steam, I'll take that high intensity weekend, you know, event that I'll go to, and you know what? Then we put it back on the shelf. I

[00:33:16] LW: and by the time we get to our age, we know a lot of people who have gotten separated and divorced. And, you know, um, again, as someone who's been in it for, for literally decades, you hear the stories, your friends come to you. Oh, she's this way. She's doing this. She's doing that. You know, I don't think this is going to work.

What kind of, what are you noticing in the field when it comes to, uh, maintaining healthy relationships, what people are not doing and what, yeah. And that sort of delusions that we all the cognitive dissonance and the confirmation bias that we all have when it comes to justifying pulling the plug versus staying in it.

[00:33:59] GS: think often we don't realize, at least for me, we don't realize that we're pulling away, or that we're not doing enough. What we used to be doing. So I talk about like they didn't continue to date your wife You know, what did you do when you were in the dating phase? What were you doing when you were super engaged and super interested or in super horny?

You're super attracted to what were you doing to be to be marriage material, you know in a way to be partner material To be, oh, I want to be with that, with that man. He's funny, he's generous, he's kind, he's empathetic. He can be strong, he can be powerful, he's all the, what were you doing then? And a lot of us, you know, we start taking, like I said, conformity, complacency, redundancy.

We start taking our partners for granted. Life happens and grows, careers, children, obligations, responsibilities. I hear this all, oh, we're just, we're like two ships, you know, just passing in the wind. She's got one kid, I have this other kid, and we're going here and there. And, you know, you just roll out of bed in the morning and you're already behind.

So you don't even acknowledge one another and give them the kiss in the morning. And you're both up and who's getting into the bathroom first and brushing it. And it's. So I would offer in this regard and, and, and to, to lean in the easy move again is to, she's not doing this for me, or he's not doing this for me. I'm not getting this, so therefore I'm not going to do it. I'm waiting for her to initiate and give me that hug because I walked in from a hard day and I got my ass handed to me by this client, I got this person that said no to me, the hour and a half podcast we did that we thought we recorded, never uploaded it, I don't know what, like whatever it is, and I'm waiting for like that hug, okay? Oh man, you're incredible, you're terrific, let's go, like let's get it on, like I can't like, and What if, what if you stopped for flowers on the way home? What if you asked, could I pick up the dry cleaning? What if you initiated that hug? Even, when you, what if those times when you wanted the most, you gave and you leaned into doing what it is you actually want? What would happen then? And, and at least what I've found, selfishly, is You start getting more of what you want. When you start giving and you start doing and living by, and leading by example. Not just in a relationship, I apply this like everywhere. I think, you know, how you do one thing is how you do everything. But if you're not getting enough affection, try leaning in and providing more affection.

[00:37:03] LW: Give 

[00:37:03] GS: If you're not getting enough attention, try leaning in and being attentive. If you're not being asked the questions that you want to be asked, What if you started asking those questions? You know, what would happen then?

It comes back to the simplicity of looking in the mirror and saying like, I, I own this.

[00:37:27] LW: Right?

[00:37:28] GS: if you do all of those things time and time again, and you mentioned, and it is still not reciprocal, you're still not feeling that you're being met halfway. I understand divorce. I understand separation. I understand that relationships can be finite. You know what? Also, I don't believe, I believe that life is short and we shouldn't spend our entire lives being unhappy and certain things shouldn't seem, shouldn't be so much work all day, every day for years, years too. But I do believe that you also have to exhaust and try, you know, all of the options.

And I think, I think the vast majority of the things that you can try, you can always, again, and I say control what you can control, you can always control yourself. And I think you owe it to yourself, you owe it to these relationships in all areas, you owe it to your health, you owe it to your kids to really, really put your best foot forward so that you then can look in the mirror and you're proud of the man staring back at you and you say, you know what?

I really did. I gave this my best shot. No shortcuts, no excuses, no bullshit. Like I really, I really gave this my best shot.

[00:38:45] LW: Yeah, I think, um, there's a little bit of a disconnect because I think we think especially nowadays, um, we think that relationships are just supposed to be. And I think it's more like, it's like a business, like a startup, your relationship is like a startup and you have to give it that same level of attention and intention when it comes to every single aspect of it, to keep, to keep it in the, in the black, you know, to keep the, the, the love, the connection and the communication in the black and just like with your clients, you have, you know, people treat their clients and their coworkers with more respect, And with more thoughtfulness and they treat their partners and they just expect that their partners should just.

Read their minds and understand what's going on. But look, we're all going through things. And so, yeah, I just, I'm just, I really admire, you know, from my perspective, I'm not, I've never been married before. I've been in a lot of long term relationships and, um, you know, things just goes different ways for different people, I guess, but I just admire.

The, the Michelle Obama said something, she said, you know, Barack and I've been married for, I don't know, 20, 25 years, maybe 30 years at this point. And she said, if you get a good 12 years out of that, and there were like, some periods where maybe 3 years, you guys didn't like each other very much. And then 2 years, you know, you were kind of maybe thinking about getting divorced, but you keep coming back and keep coming back.

And I think that's really the, the opportunity there in, um, in those longer term relationships. And 

[00:40:25] GS: Well, one thing you said that I was, I was keying in on is that We tend to think things are going to be easy, or we want them to be easy.

[00:40:36] LW: because we look at social media and it looks like it's easy with other people,

[00:40:41] GS: Yes. And,

[00:40:44] LW: like, people look at you, Greg, they look at the pictures you post. You guys are on the beach and you guys are at the, you know, the National Park and you're always talking about Kate and all. I just made love to Kate this morning. Why can't you be more like Greg,

[00:40:56] GS: And it's not real. It's real, but it's not in real time. It's not, that's all of it. There's always something you're not seeing. There's always something all of us are not seeing. You know, I was upset the last two days because I ran into friends who were there who had their wives with them at this experience that we were at in Nashville and Kate wasn't with me and I had invited her and she chose not to come and there's always reasons, you know, for that. Then you get home. Here's the stuff like you're not saying you get home at 6pm and she's still in traffic with our son coming back from a basketball tournament. And I wanted the dogs to be fed and the dogs weren't fed and I'm just getting off of a plane and there's no food in the house. And then they get home late.

And by the time we shower and get back into bed, we're not, it doesn't matter what I want, I'm not getting what I want at that point. And then she's up in the morning and I go, Oh shit, it's Friday. It's eight o'clock in the morning. I've got my boxing trainer that comes. I forgot to like, Oh, and she's like, you can't sleep in and we need to catch up.

And there's always stuff you're not seeing. Like, and I think that, that. I think it's important to put the flaws out there. It's important to put the reality on it, on it as well. Do we have more good days than bad days? Yeah, absolutely. And that's, I think why we're still together. Um, and that's even in business, you have more good days than bad days.

You have a high likelihood of staying in business. If you have more bad days than good days in anything, it, that that's not a sustainable plan, you know, for, for success and. All of these things change, and, and are, are real, and you are tired. Again, no matter how much energy the things that I do now are supposed to provide, we go back about hard, say also a lot, you know, choose your heart. It's hard to be fat. It's hard to be fit. They're different kinds of hard. If you're overweight and you're not, you could have health problems. It's hard to walk up the stairs, you know, it's hard to move around, you know, look at it. If you're fit, you know, it's hard. It's hard waking up Friday morning to box at 8 a.

m. When you've been on the road for, you know, on the road for the last 72 hours, not eating exactly the way you want to. Your mind has been releasing it down and it's easier. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard to be broke. It's hard to be wealthy. Different kinds of hard. Bigger overhead, bigger bills. Different kinds of investment strategies, taxes that I'm behind on, you know, doing what I'm supposed to do before the end of the year and the accountants emails are sitting there and I'm going, I don't even want to deal with it. But which heart would you choose? It's hard to be married. Imagine it's hard to be single. I can't even imagine what it'd be like to be single. It's hard to have children. I would think that it would be very hard for me, you know, not having children as I always wanted to be a father. Every stage of my kids life is hard, hard and joyous.

Now they're 21 and 18, a whole different level of, so it's all hard. I think when you get over the expectation that anything is going to be easy. That gives you the opportunity to step back and think about which hard do I want to choose. And there is nothing, here's the other thing, there's nothing complicated about being successful or having greater success or greater probability and likelihood of being successful. Because there are measurable and quantifiable ways to be successful in everything that we are, that we have been talking about. If you want to get in shape, there are measurable and quantifiable ways and programs. And we can get you on, that if you are willing to put the time, energy, effort, money into it, you will get, you will, you will get in the best shape of your life. You want to get wealthy? If you are willing to put aside 20 percent of your income, whatever else it is, starting at this age, and do it every year, the laws of compound interest, We can tell you exactly when you will be a millionaire.

You know, there are some in these categories that people are just unwilling to do myself included.

[00:45:31] LW: It's easy for you because you're, you're able to be consistent with these things, with eating the right way and exercising. And I can't be consistent with anything. I don't have the 

[00:45:41] GS: No, I will challenge you. They two different words, two different words. Oh, now, now this is good. You let's go here. Okay. Consistency and discipline. These words are inter they, you there, they there's always linked in a way to whether they are not the same. Oh, you're so consistent, Greg, and I can't be, you are consistent. I say this to my clients all the time, you are consistent, incredibly consistent. You've been consistently making poor choices for the last 14 years of your life. You're one of the most consistent people I know. You consistently drink. You consistently eat poor foods. You consistently make bad financial decisions. You consistently make poor relationship decisions. And you know them, because guess what? Where you make good decisions, let's say over here in your business, When you're looking at your KPIs, when you're looking at your business plan, when you're looking at your quarterly reviews, when you're If you just ran your life, like you ran your business, imagine how successful you would be in your life. And guys think in business terms, they can kind of get that. Hey, as the CEO of your company, what do you look like? What do you look at? What's the data? What's the information? What is it to be a successful CEO and continue to grow your company? Well, guess what? As the CEO of your own life, you're failing. Let's take every one of these categories and let's hold them to the same standard. Now talk to me about the quarterly reviews, the KPIs, what decisions you would make as a CEO, as a man looking in the mirror. You're incre let's take the same consistency, and here it is. Let's take the same level of consistency. Now, let's talk about discipline, because it's discipline that gets you to do the things you don't want to do. When you don't want to do them, it's discipline that gets you up to do it anyway. It's not consistency. When you're disciplined and you are making the right choices the majority of the time, the majority of your life gets better, then, then the consistency is good and positive. That's when people talk about motivation also. Oh, you're so motivated. No, I'm not. The most successful men in the world that come on my show and that I talk to are not the most motivated men in the world. They are the most disciplined, some of the most disciplined. They are the most accountable. And motivation comes from momentum. Momentum is generated. By discipline and accountability, practiced consistently, now we have a recipe for success. But consistency alone, and consistently poor decisions, that lack accountability, and honesty, and, and, and, measurability, and, that you're, yeah, that's consistent failure.

[00:48:44] LW: and look, it can be challenging going from consistently being a couch potato to consistently going to the gym. Right? And one of the things that I like to remind people is, To not plan for the perfect ideal week or the perfect ideal day, but to really start by just planning for your busy average busy day, right?

And so maybe on the average busy week, you can get to the gym. You can exercise twice and it may not sound like you're David Goggins, right? But considering where you're coming from, it's a good start. Twice is a good start. And then you build on that. You build your momentum on that. And it may be over the span of a year.

You're up to four or five times a week

[00:49:32] GS: We underestimate what we can do in a day, and we overestimate what we, I'm sorry, we overestimate what we can do in a day, we underestimate what we can do in a year. Your point is spot on. Perfect is the enemy of good. Consistency again. Gets misinterpreted to mean

[00:49:48] LW: every day. Mm hmm. 

[00:49:50] GS: I have to go from zero to a hundred, you know, like that's not what it looks like as you're talking, I'm drawing this, this line.

I don't even know if you can see my consistency looks like.

[00:49:59] LW: hmm.

[00:50:00] GS: Success looks like,

this is not a linear straight line going up. Consistently,

[00:50:07] LW: Nashville, you're not going to eat the way you want to eat. That's fine, but you know you're going to eat the way you eat as soon as you get back.

[00:50:13] GS: we go back to what does consistency look like to you? What does success look like to you? And again, what are your standards? So if my standards are that I exercise three days a week, there's four days that I don't. So if I'm a Monday, Wednesday, Friday guy, And I'm consistent 52 weeks of the year or 50 weeks of the year or again, whatever success looks like. This starts with standards. Now if my standard is I want to be 175 pounds around 10 percent body fat and be physically able to, to do what I want to do when I want to do it. Who I want to do it with for as long as I want to do it. I want to be a physically prepared guy. What do I need to do to maintain that standard? I can tell you what it's not. It's not seven days a week of working out. It's not seven days a week of cold plunges and saunas. It's not counting macros and calories and eating perfectly seven days a week. Because what I want require that. Now, if I wanted to run marathons at six minutes a mile and do that 10 times a year, my training regimen would have to look very different, or it would be unrealistic and unmet. You'd say, there's no way you can live like this and do this. Just like there's no way, Greg, you could sit at home on your ass and work two days a week coaching two guys at a time and make a million dollars.

The math doesn't work. The calendar, the math, none of this works. So again, you go back to what does success and consistency and discipline look like for you? And how do you design a system called a personal operating system that you can follow just like a business plan or anything? So that, cause I'm, I'm simple, man.

Like, like. I'm like a golden retriever. You throw the ball, bring it back, throw the ball, bring it back. So like, I need a plan. Where I was screwed up and was not living really well was when I was rudderless and didn't have a plan.

[00:52:28] LW: Yeah.

[00:52:29] GS: When you sit down and I know you know Cameron Harreld, I think, and Vivid Vision and Chip, and a lot of these guys talk about this. And there are lots of different systems and plans. Great ones. But you gotta have one.

You know, and you gotta write it. And then you gotta follow it. Hmm

[00:52:49] LW: so to get in that space to create that plan, like a lot of people, they associate me with meditation. I'm like the meditation guy for decades. Right. And that's fine. I know a lot about meditation. But when I think about. The one change that made the biggest difference in how I live my life in all ways.

It's when I stopped drinking alcohol when I was about 26 years old, I didn't have a problem. I just decided I just literally sat down 1 day. I did the math. I was like, it's really expensive. I'm not the best version of myself. I don't make the best decisions. I feel like shit the next day. The people I'm surrounded with who I'm doing it with aren't really the.

Company that I want to keep. And I just kept going on and on and on. And there were literally no upsides to it other than a temporary buzz for a couple of hours. But it was that decision and I didn't do it overnight. I weaned myself off over like 6 months, but it was that decision that I credit with being even open to things like meditation or, you know, wellness and personal development and things like that.

And so I think And I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this because you, you advocate for optimizing for family fitness, finance, food, fashion and fun. And I would say, in addition to that, you also need to create the inner awareness. So, you know, how to optimize for those things.

[00:54:12] GS: At the crux of it. I'm a how guy I wanna be a how guy. That's what I'm looking for. And I tell our team all the time, remember, we're a how brand, what do we wanna do for our readers? We wanna help them with the how. There's a, there's a plenty of why out there.

[00:54:30] LW: And what?

[00:54:31] GS: Right? A lot of why. A lot of what, find your why do, do that.

And I, and so I, I understood all that. Again, I knew why I wanted to be the better husband, better father, in better shape, all that. I knew that, that, that why, I knew those whys. What I didn't know is I didn't know how. That, that's the quest that I was going on. The only way to help me with the how. So, so I love this question.

Um, one, I think again, it, it depends what success looks like to you. I did a similar evaluation as, as you. And at this point in my life, and I'll be 52 next week, alcohol has worked its way out of my life. I, I really don't drink anymore at the same time. I don't say I am sober. I'll never drink again,

[00:55:16] LW: here. I have a little cow from time to time, but I 

[00:55:20] GS: it doesn't really have a place in my life like you. and

for all of the same reasons that you described, so I don't totally go over them, but it feels well, it messes up my workouts in the morning are greater priority. I wasn't sleeping very well. I, I, was struggling to see the upside. Let's put it that way.

So over years as what I was, I didn't focus on quitting drinking. And even reducing drinking, I focused on other activities and other things that I wanted to do. Again, I wanted to be in the gym, or I wanted to get in better shape, so I hired a trainer, paid that trainer in advance, and I started showing up.

And when I was hungover, it didn't go so well. But when I was sober and I had a good night's sleep, it went a lot better. So that was the choice, better one or better two. Go out Friday night, have a few tequilas. Get up and see the trainer and have a really feel like shit, throw up in the gym, you know, you know, or cancel and then be regretful that you just lost your 150 because I'm like, I'm going to book this pay in advance and overpay to force myself, you know, in a way to go. Or better two why don't we stay in, grill some steaks and some vegetables, watch a movie, get to bed by nine, feel great when I show up at the trainer, put in a great performance, and have a great breakfast, you know, or smoothie. Better one or better two. These choices started to become obvious. 

[00:56:47] LW: one One or two can be diametrically opposed. You know, like for people who go to Burning Man, there's two different Burning Man experiences. There's the sunset to sunrise experience where people are up all night. And those are the people who are doing all the. Drugs and alcohol and this and that. And then there's the sunrise, the sunset experience where people are doing the more holistic stuff.

And when you drink on a regular basis, and again, I don't really care. I'm not anti alcohol. I'm pro awareness, right? When you drink, there's a whole ecosystem. They're friends. They're dictates your activity. Friday nights are spoken for Saturday nights are spoken for. Right. And then having this budget time to recover.

And so you can't do shit on Saturday mornings and on Sunday mornings. And so when you stop doing that, it opens up all of these possibilities that you didn't even realize were there.

[00:57:40] GS: so there's a challenge and what you're getting at, which is something that so many individuals struggle with. And this is, this is, It's not about age or male, this is like at any age, any stage, any gender, any, any place you are. And, and one of the things that I struggled with for a while was, was how am I going to get to the other side? Like I have all these friends, I have these friends, I have these clients, I have these contacts, I'm living this way. My life is revolving around socializing, which involves alcohol, which is involved with all these things, and not going to, and like, where am I, like, am I going to lose all these friends? Am I going to lose all these clients?

You know, am I going to like give, like, What are the costs that come about this? Or what are people going to think? Or how am I even going to get to, are there like, are there like healthy, sober millionaires that I could sell insurance to, you know, or are there like, I, I don't know, cause I'm not in that world or that's why I've never been to Burning Man.

So my association is I'm not going to Burning Man because it's the former. And then you explained to me that there's the ladder, like there's a hole. So what I've learned like you is that I believe that anything and everything that you want out there in life, it actually exists. It exists and that it is not only possible, but highly probable for you to be successful and, and have it and get it if you were just willing to really look for it and, and go and go after it. But you will be constantly challenged by this. So meaning like my life now with alcohol in it, my friends, my relationships, and so many of them are new, are people that I've met. After the age of 45, you know, man, you will leave some people behind. Some people will leave you behind. I don't get invited to poker night golf.

Okay. And, and big parties and, and, and events and drinking anymore. I don't. Why? Because when you write about not allowing to go to parties, not drinking, not liking golf, not liking, guess what the other dads stop inviting you after a while because they don't want to hear that shit or they don't want to look in there.

They don't want to do. They're fine. I'm not judging. Do whatever you want to do. Now when I was inviting those guys to come work out with me in the morning, Sunday morning, garage door rolls up. Come on guys. Meet me Sunday morning, nine o'clock in the morning, doors open. Let's all work out. And I'm inviting guys who are out fishing and drinking and at parties the night before and then late night poker nights and wherever it's going to all of these other things.

Guess who's not showing up at nine o'clock on Sunday morning. These guys misalignment. But over time, and this just happened to get in Nashville too, what was the closing of the whole thing? The gala, or the un gala, or whatever they call it. And it's partying, and it's drinking, and it spills out into Broadway and Nashville, and all these other things, and what am I Do you feel left out? Yeah, do you feel like you could make more friends, maybe book more gigs, have a greater connection by doing this? Do I feel left out? What 9 o'clock in the morning workout the following morning, but With a client, with a brand partner, and when I'm, when you're in that environment, you don't longer feel like the outlier, you know, it's about so, and you learn to behave and you learn to navigate and you learn to trust yourself and your judgment in these, in these areas, because there will always be conflicts that come up or challenges that come up and you get better and you get better at handling them.

And I know it may have danced around your question a little bit here, but You can be whatever you want to be. You can be whoever you want to be. When I'm with my friends that are super fit and that don't drink or anything, guess what we don't do? We don't talk about fitness and we don't talk about not drinking. It's just who we are. We talk about all the other stuff. The only times I talk about fitness and alcohol are with people that aren't so fit and aren't, you know, and drink a lot of alcohol. And then there's like a lot of backhanded compliments, self deprecating humor. I, you know, I couldn't be as consistent as you.

There's discomfort. And I try to never really, like, go, listen, you're fine, like, you're great, like, do whatever you do, but if you want to make some changes, or you want to do some things a little bit differently, we can absolutely talk about that offline, but for now, we can just have a good time, also. Like, whatever you, in there. So it's another one of those things that lights me up when I ask you to say these things. It's like, man, cause, cause you're going to be constantly faced with this stuff. You're going to be constantly faced with that stuff. What I know now is my life is better without alcohol in it. For life. a number of reasons. My life is better by being more physically fit. My life is better by having a coach. My life is better by doing less with more focus. My life is better for all these reasons, and go back to the thing you said at the beginning. It's not about just quitting your job and following your passion or doing it. It's about having a plan, being the CEO of your own life. Being honest with your standards and with your goals, and by the way achieving your goals becomes inevitable if you follow your standards. You write the right standards, your goals, you're gonna reach those goals. Being measurable, being quantifiable.

If you love meditation, meditate. If you don't like meditation, there's an alternative to that.

[01:03:16] LW: Yeah, go 

[01:03:17] GS: You know, if you don't like, you know, weight lifting, go do yoga, go do Zumba, do a little, I mean, you know, like, what's prior, the basics, the basics, the simple. That stuff's hard enough. Like I say, master the middle.

[01:03:36] LW: Mm hmm. So speaking of mastering the middle, because you mentioned something that you said, honesty, and I think that's really if it has to boil down to one thing, it's about being honest with yourself. It's really hard to do that when you're under the influence of something. But once you get that out of the equation, it's a lot easier.

It's gonna be uncomfortable because you're gonna see things about yourself. That you're not going to like and ways you've been lying to yourself and perhaps even to other people about what's important to you, what's not important to you. And that's usually where that, that, uh, moment of that epiphany that, uh, that you're unfulfilled really gets crystal clear.

Listening to your story, it's not ironic that that moment for you happened soon after you started to become more aware of the alcohol and wanting to scale back on that. So once, once you get to that point, right, what's the next step? Do you quit your job? And, um, after you saved up 5, 000 and start working in your passion or what do you do

[01:04:34] GS: It depends. One of the things that, that people don't want to hear all the time is they don't want to hear maybe. They don't want to hear that it depends. You know, they

[01:04:47] LW: for both hands?

[01:04:47] GS: a right answer or we did an improv exercise. They don't hit the yes and, okay? The yes, there's the yes and or the yes but in there. So, but it does depend. Because my situation and circumstances are not exactly the same as anybody else's and your situations and circumstances are not exactly the same as mine. So this is not about me giving you or anyone else advice. I will share experiences with you. I will share my own. I will share the experiences that other men have shared with me and have given me permission to share with others privately and publicly. And then it comes back to, again, what do you do with that information and how How we together can work towards a plan quitting your job and remember I work predominantly with men in middle age. Quitting your job to follow your passion in middle age may be the most galactically irresponsible thing you could ever possibly do

[01:05:51] LW: With 

[01:05:51] GS: no matter how 

[01:05:52] LW: wife and a mortgage. 

[01:05:53] GS: can be. 

You are at 

your current job, no matter how unfulfilled you are, no matter how toxic you think the environment may be, no matter how much you may think the world is out to get you and That may all be true. It might depend on levels of when they turn off the faucet of that check stops coming every two weeks, you know, the 401k is going away the benefits for your family of four when all that gets turned off because you quit you up and quit out of passion out of out of conviction out of I'm not taking one more day of this and Gary V told me to go quit my job and follow my passion. And I spent, I maxed out my credit card and spent 3, 000 to sit in this arena and hear from Tony, you know, that I have to be true to myself and go fuck that, that might be the worst advice you could possibly get for some people. It might be great, it might be birth, the timing might be perfect, but where I come from. Yes, but every situation again, and every individual is different. If you sit down, if we sit down and we talk and say, okay, where are you, where do we want to go? We can't afford to quit today. That would be irresponsible. Let's create a path. Let's create an exit strategy. By the way, companies have exit strategies. When they want to sell the company, when the CEO wants to transition, there's a plan for this. I will be grooming my successor over the next 12, 18, 24 months. We are going to hire a company to position our company for sale. Our assets, our books, we have to get all of our ducks in a row before we go and we do all these things. Again, same with your life. Same with your life. Okay. I don't want to be here in three years. I'm 42, I'm 45. Let's say I want to move on. Can I do that? That's three. What is the next three years in a way look like and reverse engineer back to how we're going to be successful. Maybe I need to take a course while I'm working here so I can become smarter or more educated or certified in the thing that I really want to do. Look, I was making a million bucks a year and I was coaching rowing classes. at the same time. Because my passion for health and fitness and opening this little rowing gym and everything else was what I really wanted to do or thought I wanted to do. But guess what? It didn't pay the bills, my career and my job. So when you also change your perspective, I mean, instead of being angry at it, being resentful at it, hating it, even all these other things, what if you change your perspective and goes, you know what this allows me to do? This allows me. It allowed me to open that rowing studio. It allowed me to teach those classes. And at the right time, it allowed me to move on. And also what I learned was that isn't what I wanted to do. Not all of our passions should become our professions. I've learned that lesson the hard way and the expensive way. So it's about, again, really making that plan. Want to be a speaker. Want to be an author. You don't quit and decide you're those things the next day. Who's booking me? You know, it's a long time to write a book. For a couple of years, I said, look, I said I was one of the most highly paid podcasters and newsletter writers in the world. The reason I was one of the highest paid podcasters and newsletters in the world is because I didn't quit my job. My job and my career paid me, and that enabled me to buy an expensive microphone and a laptop, and there I was, a podcaster and a newsletter writer.

[01:10:02] LW: Yeah.

[01:10:02] GS: for years, nobody was listening, and nobody was reading. These things take time. You know that. So

[01:10:17] LW: I say, I just tell people don't quit your job. I just think that's good advice. Just don't quit your job to follow your passion. Right. Instead, do more of what makes you passionate and then use that to displace whatever your.

[01:10:34] GS: it's similar to the fitness and alcohol conversation. Again, I'm not rocket science. All these things are the same. Don't quit the alcohol before, to get fit. Start working on getting fit

And you will ultimately reduce the alcohol. Because it's typically the opposite of the way we think. 

[01:10:55] LW: their platform gets a lot of 

[01:10:57] GS: Don't quit your job to follow your passion.

Start pursuing your passions. Becoming the best version of that. And then you may get to a point where you leave your job responsibly because of what you have realized and you have found, and then it's respected. And here's the last point I'll make. There's nothing wrong with working for a company. There's nothing wrong with not quitting your job. There's nothing wrong with being somewhere and having loyalty and a good career. Maybe you don't want to be for, maybe your metric of success is, I want to be a mid level executive with no HR responsibilities. We're ownership responsibilities whatsoever. I want that check to come every two weeks. I want to go home. I want to coach my kids. I want to do nothing wrong with any of that at all. And today, more than ever, we're allowed and supported to be more than one thing. So yes, you can be the vice president of an insurance company and a rowing teacher. You know, you can be an executive assistant five days a week and an artist at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive. No matter what you think, see, or read on social or anywhere else or any of these other things. Is this how you get to redefine, reframe, redesign what success looks like for you? It's your business plan for your life. Nobody else's. And I think that gets lost a lot. I think that gets lost a lot because there's so much noise out there everyone's got an opinion and a platform to share it. And yes, and we have fundamentally lost the ability to agree to even disagree. Or accept and appreciate different perspectives and viewpoints, because what we do, what is again, easier is, oh, you disagree with me, like, I disagree with you, like, and I'm sure we put stuff up like that, that we've disagreed in there.

Okay. But so, you know, what I'm going to do, I'm not going to follow. I'm not going to listen to light anymore or talk to light anymore. I'm going to go. Flip the channel, and by the way, there's a million channels, YouTube's everywhere else, until I find the person who looks like me, acts like me, speaks like me, believes everything I believe in, and I'm gonna go to that person. So then we feel like, oh, we're all validated, we have followers, we have people that listen. And they feel like they've found the space, so why should I pay attention to anything else? And we end up in these little closed silos.

[01:14:06] LW: You are very vocal about the whole Middle East thing and all of that. What are some of the takeaways that you've had just from again from your business and then posting about stuff? And were there any, was there anything unexpected that happened versus, um, what you experienced? Did you do anything differently?

Like, just give us a little bit about what you've learned through that process. Because I've certainly learned some stuff too.

[01:14:29] GS: I'm Jewish. It's pretty obvious, you know, with my last name and everything. My wife is Catholic, also. I did not grow up religious. I am not religious. We are not religious as a family. We were spiritual. Uh, but I have been very vocal and very Transparent about my beliefs and what I feel about the situation that has been going on in, in Israel and what has happened and what is happening there. And, and some people don't like it. And some do. And that's okay. I've learned a lot about a lot of people. I think a lot of people have learned a lot about me, you know, for it and, and, and from it. I am in a position now where I don't have to put that asterisk under anything I say that says my views or representations are not the same as the company that I work for or anything else like, like that. And I'm not trying to be everything for everyone. I hope that people have an open mind. I hope that people are open to, to education. I am not saying that in a manner that everything I say has to be the way you're educated or you have to come around to exactly the way that I, that I see things. Either. Um, I think that as a speaker, as a writer, uh, and as somebody who, and we all have voices, but as somebody who puts themselves out there personally and professionally at this point as having a voice, I think I have a responsibility to use it and to speak honestly and openly and transparently.

And, and I have heard, oh, why don't you just stay in your lane? You know, or what does this have to do with maximizing midlife? Or what does this have to do with fitness? Or what does this have to do with food? Or what does this have? Stay in your lane. And my answer to some of that is, I got this from, I think it was Jen Cohen.

I think one time she'd posted this, this. Text that she'd gotten. It's like, you know, why don't you just focus on your fitness or whatever? We want to and he posted a picture of herself and she's super super fucking fit and it was like I ain't worried about my Fitness, you know the is we've talked about this before again, I believe it's all connected It is all connected if you want to trust me about anything that I say. Hmm, then You have to be able to trust me whether you agree with me or don't agree with me on everything else. I think it's just as important. I can write the deepest thing, the most passionate thing about freeing our hostages and what I believe that Israel should or should not do or whatever it is, and I can passionately go out there and I don't profess to know it all or the details and I get my information from Various sources of, of media like everybody else.

And we're all trying to figure out who do you believe and who do you trust? And what are we seeing and not seeing at the same time? Also, I can write that. I can say that on camera, I can do this. And you know what I'll also have to do, I'll have to answer the DM from the guy that said, Hey, you know, I read that thing you put out there on, on Israel or what you think about, you know, teen suicide or what happened for your son.

But, you know, my question is, you know, who makes your sunglasses? It's all of it. It's narrow and deep and it's shallow and wide, man.

And, and and people are all those things

and sometimes there lands like a thud.

Other times it connects well. Other times it lands, you know, it lands like a thud, but causes a lot of, of ripple effect and vice versa. And you've experienced, I'm sure all of this too,

[01:18:42] LW: Sure, 

[01:18:42] GS: but I believe in leaving the comments open. I believe in, in speaking and, and, and about what's timely and what's topical and what's going on my, on in my head, in my mind. And you know what, that is true to the message. Because I'm still the same 52-year-old guy and this is how I'm seeing it and living it now, and it affects every other aspect of my life.

[01:19:06] LW: Yeah. Dave Ramsey. Um, the financial guru talks about that. He says, you know, obviously he's a, he's a devout Christian, and he says, a lot of times people, they wanna separate him from his Christianity and his message from his Christianity and say, you can't do that. You can't believe in what I'm saying when it comes to budgeting and financing.

And separate that from everything else that I'm believing because it's informing everything that I'm doing. And so that's why I talk about this stuff openly, honestly.

[01:19:35] GS: Maybe I don't listen to a lot of Dave Ramsey. I know of Dave Ramsey. I would say maybe, I would say, I'm sure there are individuals out there that give tremendous financial advice that I could listen to and be very successful at their financial if I just did that. But they might be horrible people and I don't believe in any other way that they carry or conduct themselves or their life or the things that they do or anything else. So while the financial advice might be prudent and it might work for my strategy, what I would also offer is there's probably a wealth manager out there who has a similar financial strategy and structure, who I do want to have breakfast with, who I do like as a person. So I think again, we have options and choices in, in all of this. If I was on trial for murder, I was on trial for murder, I would be looking for the best defense attorney in the world. I would not be looking for the best golf partner. I would not be looking for the best guy to party with. And so what do we, you know, again, what do we need? What are we looking for? What are we trying to accomplish?

Where do we find and get all of those things? Would I not book the speaker who is incredible at leadership? Or sales or anything else, because I differed with his views on anything, you know, in there. I don't know, but these things come up, these things come up all the time.

[01:21:27] LW: Well, I, we've come to our time, but I did want to mention that I, I think about you often Greg, because I'm, I'm in the gym. Um, I've recently worked my way back up to 225 on the bench press, and I'm doing 5 sets of 5 of that. And, um, you know, I used to hate pull ups because when I was a kid growing up in Alabama, we'd have the state physical fitness exam and I was just scrawny kid.

I could, I could just, I was just wiggling on, on the, on the bar. I couldn't pull myself up at all. And now, you know, I just, every time I'm able to do that, it's just, it's wonderful for me. It's a wonderful celebration of how far I've come in taking my physical fitness seriously in my fifties, especially. So.

[01:22:10] GS: Well, good for you and congratulations. And I think, you know, regardless of the numbers, you know, the, the one rep maxes or the sets of this or anything. It's again, it's the commitment, as you said, it's the discipline that becomes the consistency. It's the fact that you're prioritizing it, you know, and you're doing it. And there's a lot of white space between being out of shape and sedentary and being, you know, jacked and ripped and goggins. And I think again, master of the middle is so always, you know, where it works for you. So, so kudos to you for, for doing that and figuring that out, um, and staying on it. And I know we're getting close to the end of your time, but you mentioned, yeah, Hey, there used to be a, a standard physical fitness test. We don't have those anymore anymore. You know, when you go back, we talked a lot about standards in the last hour or so and a half. I wish we still had those, you know, that there was at least a, hey, there's a, there's a mark. We at least kind of have an idea of where the standard and where the mark is.

[01:23:15] LW: Did you guys have that in Long Island? Did you have 

[01:23:17] GS: Oh, yeah. I don't know. We had like the presidential

fitness test. 

Yeah, 

[01:23:21] LW: yeah, yeah, 

[01:23:22] GS: you know and sit ups the 60 second sit ups and I think they were like push ups and

climb a rope. No, there was a jump fit and and I wish my boys had this, you know, to know we, you know, again, there were there were testing standards and there were physical standards and there were all these things and

[01:23:41] LW: What was 

[01:23:41] GS: time. Episode three. 

[01:23:44] LW: I don't remember at my elementary school when this happened, there was no preparation, there was nothing like, okay, the test is coming up in two weeks, or in a month, we need to, we need to like, practice pull ups, or, they just literally took us from the classroom out to the playground and said, okay, now do some pull ups.

I'm like, what? I've never done pull 

[01:24:02] GS: That's how you also, no pun intended, that's how you set the bar. Hey, this is where I am. And by the way, this is where the standard is. This is how I know how far away I am from the standard. And the other thing is you don't have to get ready if you stay prepared. That's something I learned and it really, really resonated with me. That you don't have to get ready. If you stay prepared, you know, your keynote, you're going to call tomorrow to say, Hey man, I can't do the gig. Can you fill in for me? You still have been sharp and practicing and you've done, you've done it 30 other times and you're ready. You step right into that spot. And you knock it out of the park, but you've been sitting home with your thumb up your ass, and you haven't read your keynote and haven't practiced, haven't done anything in six months, and that guy calls you for that 20, 000 hour, and he goes, can you take it, and now you're scared shitless, oh, I am not ready. Same thing, if you're working out, and you're training, and you're doing this, and a buddy calls you up and says, hey man, like, let's go do that 5k this weekend. Or, hey, come meet me here.

[01:25:02] LW: Let's 

[01:25:02] GS: I don't care what they say to me, I will, I'm not gonna win anything, like, but I'm not gonna embarrass myself either.

[01:25:08] LW: Right.

[01:25:10] GS: You don't have to get ready if you stay prepared, and that gets back to standards and discipline and consistency and all these things, and man, I, I, just love that stuff, and we can end on, because of how hard everything is, we discussed how hard everything really is. If you want to make things easier, In your life, do the little things every day because then the heart is not nearly as hard

[01:25:39] LW: Beautiful. I love it. That's in there. Thank you, man. Appreciate you.

[01:25:44] GS: Light thank you so much. I always enjoy catching up with you. I appreciate you letting me be a guest, you know, and, and, and, uh, on here and, and sharing and you're welcome. Anytime at Midlife Mail. So we've got to, we've got to talk more where I can ask you the questions and, and we can hear from you for, for an hour and a half, because that is, that is much needed, uh, and long overdue also.

[01:26:08] LW: Let's do it. I'd be honored. Cool.

[01:26:10] GS: Absolutely. We will make that happen for sure.

[END]

Thank you for tuning into today's episode with Greg Scheinman. If you would like to follow Greg's work in helping men maximize their midlife years, you can find him on the socials @GregScheinman. His last name is S C H E I N M A N.
 
 And if you enjoyed this conversation with Greg, be sure to check out our first episode, which is episode 122, where Greg and I dive deeper into his backstory and how the midlife male movement actually began.
 
 And if you know someone who's out there making the world a better place through their work or their story, please send your guest suggestions to light at light. Watkins. com. Also, please take a few moments to just rate and review the show. And I hope to see you next week for another inspiring story of. an ordinary person doing extraordinary things.
 
 Until then, keep pushing your boundaries, keep embracing your truth and keep remembering that our greatest struggles often become our greatest strengths. And if no one's told you lately that they believe in you, I believe in you. Thank you and have a fantastic day.