278: The Red Pill Take on Dating for Spiritual People: Abundance, Attraction, and Relationships with Michael Sartain

In this episode of The Light Watkins Show, Light sits down with men's dating coach and evolutionary psychology enthusiast, Michael Sartain. If you've ever been curious about the modern dating landscape, the rise of the "manosphere," and the often controversial conversations around attraction, hypergamy, and relationship dynamics, this episode is packed with insights.

Michael breaks down the realities of dating based on data, not just opinion. He dives into the misconceptions men and women have about attraction, the role of evolutionary psychology, and why so many people are disillusioned with modern dating. He shares his own "red pill" moment working in a strip club, the lessons he learned about female attraction, and how his time in the military shaped his perspective on leadership and relationships.

This conversation is raw, unfiltered, and loaded with eye-opening takeaways—whether you agree or disagree with the red pill ideology. Light keeps an open mind while exploring Michael’s viewpoints, from the dating myths that keep people stuck to the surprising effects of social media on attraction and commitment.

Expect a deep dive into:

• The harsh truths about modern dating and why men struggle
• The difference between what people say vs. what they do in relationships
• Why leadership and personal development are game-changers for men
• How social media and dating apps have skewed expectations for both men and women
• The impact of birth control on attraction
• The misconceptions about the manosphere, red pill, and hypergamy

If you're looking for a data-driven, no-nonsense take on relationships and attraction, this episode will challenge your perspective and make you rethink what you know about dating.

Transcript

MS: “The red pill moment, never forget it. It was a girl named Cassidy. That was a stripper name. She came into work and had a black eye. All the girls, we are in the back. We're looking at her. This girl had a black eye. I'm 22 years old. I don't know how to deal with this. This is the first incident in my entire life dealing with any kind of domestic abuse or physical violence, I was not aware of this, and I felt horrible for her. She just got punched in the face by her boyfriend. All the girls are consoling her. A girl, you can do better, blah, blah, blah. She's putting concealer on to cover up the fact that she has a black eye. Now, this is a tragedy. Domestic abuse is a tragic event. But the problem is, from my standpoint, I'm supposed to believe that no woman would ever allow this. Like, why would this happen? Why would a woman stay with a guy who hit her? Like, it didn't make any sense to me. No one gave me information to understand what was going on here.”

[INTRODUCTION]

There's been a lot of research being discussed online lately, especially on YouTube, on the subject of modern dating dynamics, as well as on toxic masculinity and misogyny and feminism. And I like to pride myself as someone who can talk to anyone about anything and keep an open mind and an objective point of view.

And I just wanted to learn more about what the influencers in that dating space are saying about how to date in today's modern world of dating apps, how attraction actually works according to the research versus how we think it should work. What our blind spots are as men and as women, how we are diluted in our expectations. And what is this concept called hypergamy? What does it mean? How does it work in real life? 

And one such influencer from what's called the manosphere, whose perspective I found very insightful is men's dating coach, Michael Sartain. So Michael is an evolutionary psychology nerd. He has read dozens of books about the subject, and he's hosted hundreds of interviews with all of the biggest thought leaders in that space, including Dr. David Buss. 

As you'll hear, he has researched to back up pretty much everything that he says. I do want to warn you though, that if you are overly sensitive to men talking about women from an unfiltered and objective point of view, you may want to skip this episode. 

My job is never to impose my personal views onto those of my guests, but rather to listen, to be curious and to learn about new and different perspectives. I hope that you take that same approach with this conversation. 

And finally this is a longer than usual episode because Michael and I just talked about so many different subjects when it comes to dating. As you can imagine, there is a lot to cover. I don't expect you to agree with everything that he says.

I certainly don't, but I do find his insights and overall perspective intriguing enough to do my own research. And I hope you will too.

So without further ado, here's my conversation with Michael Sartain.
 
 [00:02:51] LW: Michael Sartain. It's a pleasure having you on the podcast,

[00:02:55] MS: Hey, Light. Thank you, brother.

[00:02:57] LW: I've been you know, like a lot of guys during the pandemic, I kind of got introduced to a lot of the thought leaders in the red pill space and learned a lot about this, the simp and the symptom and, you know, just all the terms that are associated with.

The male female dating dynamics that I had no, I mean, I'd read, I read Neil Strauss's book back in the day when it first came out the game and I know Neil, he's a friend of mine and and then I got introduced to Rollo Tomasi and, you know, Andrew Tate and all these kind of guys.

And then in the last year or so, you started popping up in my YouTube for you page. And I started watching your stuff. I saw the interview that you did back in August with Casey and, you know, just been loving your stuff. And it's interesting because, you know, you have this red pill community, which I want you to kind of break down what that is, but I feel like you are.

A really good on ramp to this stuff because you don't, come across as a sort of blind disciple of this ideology, you seem like someone who has really made it your own and thought about these things and you have your own unique perspective. And so, we're going to get into all of that. We're going to get into your backstory and we're going to get into a lot of the points that you have been making in your own podcast and your own interviews, but I just want to just welcome you to the podcast 1st and foremost, and just give us a little introduction of how you present yourself these days professionally when you're out and about and I don't know if you're in Vegas full time or L.

A. or you commute back and forth. I kind of get the impression that you're in both. But yeah, just tell me a little bit about how you introduce yourself.

[00:04:38] MS: Yeah. So the best way for me to say what I do is I'm a male performance coach. I'm not, the thing is because my program and especially in our marketing and when you just watch my day to day life, because I host the three biggest bikini competitions in the world and because I throw, you know, 18 to 20 social circle events a year that are massive.

lot of the guys from the male dating space see me as like a social circle dating coach, but that's not how, we see ourselves as a company. Because I teach guys, leadership, communication, networking, all these other things. So basically the way to explain it, like is my program men of action guys come for the girls.

And then when they come, I basically, when they joined the course, it's I'm a former us military officer. It's like a military program. Have you guys have ever been in the military? Then you know how you get instruction there. That's how we teach the guys in my program. My program takes about six months to get through.

And then at the end, what's happened is you're a better communicator. You're a better leader. You speak in a more direct way. You can hold eye contact better. And then at the very end, poof, the women show up because you're actually a better human being. So that's, so we kind of, we sell you what you want cause if you look at my ads, it's just me with insanely hot women. And then we teach you what you need. And I got that from Alex Becker, somebody I really admire. He was kind of one of the people I heard say that first. And so when you ask about me specifically it's a help and a hindrance.

First off, like a lot of people wouldn't know who I was if it wasn't for Fresh and Fit and for Rolla Tomasi. But like, I'm not as red pill as they are. So the better way to say it would be the ultimate belief system that I have is evolutionary psychology. So as far as red pill is a derivative of evolutionary psychology, I agree with it. Evolutionary psychology is really what I agree with the most. It's the reason why I got into this space is because there's actual, when people have these debates, who cheats more men or women or. You know, why do women leave relationships or blah, blah, blah, all these questions that people have been asking on YouTube for years.

The reality is there's already professors at the university of New Mexico, university of Texas, UC Santa Barbara, there's already professors at Harvard that are studying these things. And there's actual answers to these questions and they're never brought up on these shows. There's Easily applicable data.

And so what I wanted to do and what I try to bring to the audience is actually trying to use stats and data to apply it to dating. There's a few other guys that do this. I would say Mack and Murphy, Alex date psych and William Costello or other content creators that specifically try to stay in the evolutionary psychology space to answer some of these questions.

But I'm the only guy who really is a dating coach who's doing this. So that's what, that's where my space is a little different. And the other reason why I'm very different is. All of my experiences or the vast majority of my experiences with women throughout my entire life are incredibly positive.

I don't have, I, you'll never hear me calling women hoes or bitches or any, there's no pejoratives that I ever call women on my shows at all because most of my friends are female and women are always introducing me to other women. Most, maybe like 60 percent of my friends are female. When I go out, I'm the guy who likes to show up to the club with 20 or 30 girls with me.

I like to go to parties whenever I go to parties. I like to put 60 or 70 girls on the guest list with me. Whenever I go to speeches like Tai Lopez's events or whatever, I like to always bring six or seven girls to sit with me, I just like to be surrounded by beautiful women whenever I go to social events and because of that, it's been magnificent as far as me networking, but it's also incredible.

Like, you know, it's incredible marketing as well. that's. That's why I don't really come from the same place as some of the other Red Pill content creators like the ones, like for instance, you were talking about ARC, Alan Roger Curry, you know, their belief is men and women can't be friends. And so my belief is, well, because I'm friends with women, I actually have the ability to date more attractive women than the average guy, or rather more importantly, more attractive women than I'd be able to date without having female friends.

So having an incredible wing woman is something that I teach stuff like that. If you want to ask where I would state myself, I would say I'm a male performance coach. And then specifically my theories or my strategies when it comes to dating is have as many incredibly awesome female friends as you can have them get you invited to everything. Have them get you used to being around beautiful women and have them introduce you to other women.

[00:08:30] LW: So for those listeners, a lot of my listeners are female, case in point, I was hanging out with a 25 year old friend of mine, a female, really beautiful model here in Mexico city where I'm based yesterday, she was telling me that one of the most impactful books in her life is the subtle art of not giving a fuck right by Mark Manson.

And I said, Oh, that's interesting. Mark Manson used to be a pickup artist. And she said, what's a pickup artist and she had never heard of any of these terms because she's this beautiful model and she's never had to study dating dynamics. Right. But for men, we talked, we had a little conversation about this.

I said, for men, we don't have that experience that you're having. A lot of men have to study this stuff and understand the principles and what is it that attracts women and how do you present yourself in the best possible way to optimize this for for mating. And so a lot of my listeners of this podcast are female, and I don't want to assume that they have heard these terms, red pill.

 So let's just break some of that down. What is the red pill community? How did it originate? What is like the basic premise of dating dynamics

[00:09:40] MS: Yeah. So I want you to consider before 2000, the concept of like men sharing dating techniques with other men was something that was like vaguely done on like text written forums, right? Bulletin boards, that kind of thing. Not

[00:09:55] LW: that guy, Ross what, what is it? 

[00:09:57] MS: so yeah, they consider the so suave forums would have been like the original ones and Ross Jeffries and speed seduction and all this kind of stuff.

These would have been the original ones. Now we don't have enough bandwidth back in 2000 in order to like broadcast video. So this is all text that we're seeing. About around 2003 one of my best friends Rao Tomasi he gets involved around the same time. It's funny, I'm having several of the same realizations 'cause I'm managing a nightclub at this point.

Rolo is writing these books basically about, you know, male female dynamics. And he's taking a bunch of the essays from the Sowa Forum from the point of 2003 to 2013. He puts him into his first book and it's called The Rational Mail. So, here's a couple things I wanna go over. 

From 2009 to like the present day, there's this thing called the pickup artist regroup. So pickup artists, this was made famous or went from underground to being above ground by the book. 2005 Neil Strauss is the game. Okay. So Neil Strauss, he talks about mystery, Eric von Markovic, another friend of mine. Talks about mystery. He talks about going out and meeting girls. Mystery is an indirect, a cold approach, like.

I've been out with mystery before. A lot of the pickup artist stuff worked very well back then before social media, because pickup artistry was in this perfect space where there was internet, but there was no social media. So that's from 1999 to like 2011. We had my space back then. We didn't have Facebook yet. And so in this area, pickup was phenomenal. It worked really well. Cause there were still a lot of girls that were going out to nightclubs and bars and guys were going up to strangers and doing cold approach.

[00:11:23] LW: Cold approach means I don't know this person I don't know this person at all. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The thing that changed it, what that was very different is there's no politics in. Meaning Mark Manson is a, who is a hardcore liberal and also Neil Strauss. Who's a hardcore liberal. They were in the same spot as right now, the pickup, a lot of the pickup artists are hardcore conservative. Then later on what happened right around 2013, once red pill started coming out, red pill has a very. Politically conservative tent to it. So red pill is a derivative of pickup, but it's more about the defense. Like don't get taken in a, you know, they go over custody battles and things like men taking their own lives and concepts like a prenuptial agreements and women trying to take your money and all this kind of stuff.

[00:12:06] MS: So then what happened is in the red pill or manosphere space, that's when you get these different derivatives. So pickup is one of them. The red pill guys are one of them. There's also guys called black pill. Then there's guys called the mode one guys, all these different derivatives.

And these guys all have their different theories on how to pick up women or to be successful with women. Pickup was just about picking up women. That's all the people didn't care if the girl had a high body count, if she was a conservative, a liberal, no one cared about this. And then later on, it's funny you're asking me this question because I just asked there's a documentary someone's doing on this and they asked me all these same questions.

And I had to go back and do a bunch of research. 

[00:12:39] LW: Really well versed in this. He knows all the years and everything.

[00:12:43] MS: Around 2017, when you started seeing a lot of guys start to stream on the internet. This is the first time when Rollo Tomasi shows his face. And then Rollo actually had Andrew Tate on his show like way back when. And then around 2018, 2019, then Fresh and Fit starts doing their first live streams where they have girls come on the show. Andrew Tate comes on that. And a phenomenon is born. Now, all of a sudden, not only is Red pill content popular. It is literally the most super chatted thing on the entire internet. And during COVID, you started seeing a lot of guys getting into this. It got more and more powerful to the point where Andrew Tate becomes the most Googled person in the entire world in August of 2020. Two, I believe I can't remember. It's all 2021 or 2022. He becomes that he gets canceled. And then what you start to see, well, I'm sorry, there's another thing I forgot to mention in 2017, all the guys who were doing the pickup stuff, they had all this infield cold approach that was hidden. So the camera was hidden.

They would walk up to girls, blur out their faces, and they would go up and pick up these women on camera and then like leave with them. Now, a lot of it was bullshit. They weren't actually leaving with these girls. They were just spending them around and editing the video to make it look like they were hooking up with girls that they weren't hooking up with, but.

What happened was about 500 content creators in the pickup space had all of their channels deleted on YouTube. And so the pickup industry sort of died. You see this happen with real social dynamics. That was one of the companies where this happened, but all the infield video from all these pickup companies was taken off the internet around 2017, then the red pill space blows up 2018, 2019, fresh inflate blows up.

Then a creator on the West coast named Brian Atlas creates the whatever podcast. So the two biggest podcasts. In the space where the whatever podcast on the west coast, fresh and fit on the east coast. So these things blow up, they get bigger and bigger, they get more and more popular.

And what happens is 2 things are going on. Men are being educated as to dynamics between men and women, but also there is a subset of men who are very angry. And very hateful and they start commenting on these things and they start saying horrible things about women on there. This is true. It's not that red pill content created men to be misogynist, but men who were misogynist used red pill content as a sounding board in order to express their opinions, which is why it got so bad so quickly.

And it's something that I really try to stay away from in my content. This is the very same thing. I compared between Harris and Trump, I support Donald Trump, but do I think Donald Trump's racist? No, but do I believe racist people follow Donald Trump? Yes, I do. I absolutely think they do. And so that it's one of those types of situations.

I don't think red pill content makes men misogynistic. I think what happens is misogynistic men are looking for a space to comment on Tik TOK, to comment on YouTube, to comment on Instagram. importantly, Twitter. And that's the space that they used to do so. And then people backwards, rationalize. Oh, well, all this does is teaching men to be misogynistic. I don't agree with that at all. If anything, teaching men to not misunderstand what women are saying is causing them to not be misogynistic. 

Misogyny. You said you had Alan Roger Curry on your show. At the end of his book Mode one, he has one of the best descriptions of misogyny I've ever heard.

He said that men do not become misogynistic because they are rejected by women. Men become misogynistic, because women waste their time. Friend zone them, make the man spend a bunch of time and effort and resources to court the woman, they take the woman out on dates, they listen to the woman's problems, and then while they're sitting there talking to the woman, she's crying on his shoulder and she's crying about another guy that she slept with on the first date.

And you're like, wait a second. I just spent all this time and effort with you and you friends on me. And you just slept with some other guy on the first date. That is when men become misogynist. When women waste men's time, that is when men become misogynist. I totally agree with him on that. It's like, because you become very resentful of someone who wasted your time.

And so that, I think that's where that whole space and that, that's where we are today. And I'll let you guys know. Pick up artists, you know, they already got kind of canceled in 2017. Red pill content was being ratioed. People use the word shadow band, shadow bands, not real term.

It's actually ratioed. What happens is they take a bunch of your content and then they siphon off the normal viewers you would have gotten to someone else. There's actually like government watch organizations that are trying to get all red pill content creators to siphon off their views to what are called blue pill content creators.

Like a great example of a blue pill content creator would be like Chris GQ. Perry, he's a guy who gives absolutely terrible advice to men. He comes out there. He says just platitudes. He gaslights women for hours and just basically tells women everything they want to hear. There's this great video of 50 cent and it starts off 50 cents talking and he goes, men who want to date multiple women at the same time are weak.

It just shows that he's insecure, whatever. And you see thousands of women liking this post and content, of course, not understanding it was a deep fake. 50 cent never said that the guy who wrote magic stick never said talking about P. I. M. P. The guy who wrote pimp is not sitting there saying that men who want to date multiple women are weak, but so many people wanted to believe this was true that this video that were 50 cent is being deepfaked.

We're going to show it on access Vegas tonight. This video where 50 cent is being deepfaked got millions of likes women. I knew fell for this whole trap. So people who kind of like severely disagree with the concepts of hypergamy. They're what they're what we call blue pill content creators and blue pill content creators think there's no crisis in dating that the men at the bottom are not being stepped on, that there's a patriarchy that only hurts women.

It doesn't hurt men, stuff like that. And so that's where this ultimate debate has gotten to. The problem is, even though. I'm going to give an example. Myron Gaines and Rola Tomasi, Aaron Clary, and Andrew Tate are on a , Department of Homeland Security watch list right now. Don't take my word for it.

Google it yourself. They put these people on a watch list as if they are terrorists, because they're trying to inform men about. Some of the dangers of what happens when you get involved with the wrong woman. And so, because of this is why I was saying and like, we're going to get into one other part that's really controversial.

Something that's got me in a lot of trouble. I don't know if you saw, but in this last election, 30. Of African American men under the age of 50 voted for Donald Trump. That is an outrageously high number. That number almost doubles what happened previous. It's the highest number since Richard Nixon, since the 1960s, 41 percent of Hispanics voted for Donald Trump.

One of the things I said was that red pill content wasn't dangerous because the, because Google and Meadow were trying to protect women. The reason why it was dangerous was it was causing men who were minorities, Hispanic and black men to vote Republican. That was my prediction. And sure enough, I was absolutely vindicated because people thought I was crazy when I said it, but the number of minorities that voted Republican after this red pill wave happened was astronomically higher and I was saying the reason why this content is being ratioed is not because they're trying to protect women.

If anyone's trying to protect women, it is the red pill content creators. The reason why this content was ratioed was because it was causing minorities who had always voted Democrat to start voting Republican. It turns out that's exactly what happened. And one of the reasons why Donald Trump won the election.

So, I mean, I know I went a long roundabout way of trying to describe it, but for me, I described the whole space in general, for me personally, all I'm I care about is male self improvement. I don't. Never try to bash women. I'm no, I'm not trying to blame anyone. We are the way we are because of evolution.

You know, I do a show every week where I have eight women come on and we ask their opinions on different things. There's no acrimony between us. These girls are my friends, several of my dated and we're all cool. I live here in Las Vegas and since I've done the show, So, because my content is not as bombastic, a lot of people who are heavy academics or people who really want to understand the data, they thought they gravitate towards me.

The people who are looking for extreme viewpoints, they don't really gravitate towards me as much.

[00:20:11] LW: Yeah. If I had to break the red pill community down to a, one line, I would say it's flipping the paradigm from the woman is the prize to man is the prize. Was that, is that

[00:20:25] MS: Well, yeah. I mean, I think that's one way to say it. Another way I'd like to say it is, you know, 6. 6 billion. That's how much revenue only fans made last year. And I think the part of the reason why is because a lot of men, so one of the problems is when I say men. Men is not a model.

Men understand this, but women tend to not understand this. Most men don't have any options with women. The average man in the United States makes 59, 000 a year or less. Most men in this last year have had zero sexual partners or one, maybe, okay, most men don't do well with women. On dating apps, the top 10 percent of men get 16 times as many matches as the median man.

So there's this massive group of men that are sort of just like treading water. And then there's this top 10 percent of men who have unlimited options with women. When women are complaining about men, they're complaining about this top 10 percent of men and they're conflating that with all men.

They're saying men cheat all the time, not realizing that when they went to Walmart earlier today, the 5'6 cashier never cheats, but she didn't notice him. And he doesn't have any options with women because he doesn't like make a lot of money and he's not very tall. So this is the part where like my audience is that bottom group of men that are completely invisible to women and women.

Not only do they not acknowledge that these men are invisible, they don't even acknowledge that these men exist. Like. This is one of the reasons why a boys and men, which is a great book, written by Richard Reeves. He's a professor and he's a senior fellow at the Brookings Institute, which is a think tank.

And by the way, politically progressive or politically liberal, he came out with this book, basically explaining what's happened is because 60 percent of college enrollees are female, which is a great thing. I'm not saying that's a problem, but because that happened, what you should expect is these women to make more money which you see in certain areas in certain countries. And I believe in the United States, I believe women under the age of 30 are outpacing men as far income is concerned. And so what's happened is because these women are making more money, what you would hope to expect is that because women make more money, they don't need partners who make more money. 

But what we've seen light is because of evolutionary psychology, the opposite is true when women make more money, they want men who make even more money. So you consider Rihanna, she was worth 400 million dating a billionaire. So even though Rihanna was making what had 400 million, she didn't say no, honey. Don't worry about making any money. I got us. She didn't do that. She wanted a man who made even more money than her. And so what's happened is the men that these high achieving women have to choose from is a smaller and smaller pool. If you guys want to read, there's a an essay written by Dr. David Buss from university of Texas, going over this dilemma that women are starting to face as women make more and more money, the pool they have to choose from become smaller and smaller. 

If you're one of those men, let's just say for instance, you have a bachelor's degree, you are a former us military officer, you make a really good living. Those men who now are high achieving men. They have a business that's scalable, you know, they stayed in really good shape. Those men have so many options with women that now these women who are only choosing these highest tier men are complaining because like, Oh, every time I meet Tom, Tom has all these girls chasing him.

He's a fuck boy. He's a narcissist. I'm like, no, he's not a narcissist. He just has so many options. And the other guys that you had to choose from. You think that you're settling for those guys and you can see this on dating apps. Women will write swipe 5 percent of the time. Men will write swipe 55 percent of the time as women are exposed to more and more images of very high achieving men.

Then what happens is their current partners or men that they could go on dates with, they become, they look wanting. They're less desirable, like Steve down the street, Steve, your neighbor 1955, you would have dated Steve, your neighbor. But now it's like you look at Steve and it's like, Steve doesn't have a Bugatti Steve doesn't have six pack abs.

I look on the internet and I see guys with six pack abs and Bugatti everywhere. Why can't I find that? I go on dating apps and I right swipe on the hottest guys were all six foot four. When you explain to women. That a man who's six feet tall makes up 14% of the population, and a man who makes a hundred thousand dollars a year makes up 17% of the population.

It's not 14% plus 17%. It's 14% times 17%. It's 2.3% of men. 

Ladies, listen to me right now. 2.3% of men are six feet tall and make a hundred thousand dollars a year, 2.3% of men, and we have not. We have not looked at whether or not he's married, whether or not he's obese or whether or not he's good looking. If we take those things into account, we're talking 0. 02 percent of men that you have to choose from. I want a guy who's six foot five blue eyes, who works in finance. We looked at that. There were literally like, Six foot five blue eyes works in finance and like was single. It was something like six men in Manhattan that were in that category.

If you were six foot three, you are in, there's 1 percent of men that are six foot three. And so women, because they see because it's very similar to what happens to men when they watch pornography, men watch pornography and think women should behave that way. And women should look that way. Women watch, look at images on social media and they start believing that. Oh, this is what I should accept. I should only accept a man who looks like this, who does this for me, who makes this much money. And so, because of this happening, we have these these unreasonable beliefs about what women want and what men want. And so what men want, high status men, what they want is they want sex before commitment.

 What women want is they want commitment before sex. And because these two things, if you know anything about trading like in the stock market, because the bid and the ask spread is so high, there's no transaction. And so what you should expect to see is the lowest fertility rate, the lowest marriage rate and a high number of men not in relationships.

And then when we look empirically, what do we see the lowest fertility rate? Check the lowest rate of marriage. It's six women. And out of every 1000 that want to get married check. And we should also see the 66 percent of men under the age of 30 or single. Let me say that one more time. 66 percent of men under the age of 30 are single.

33 percent of women under the age of 30 are single. It just, the numbers bear out what you would expect. When you see stuff like this, so what's happened is we have this perceived dilemma of choice for men and women. Men have this perceived dilemma of choice because they watch pornography because they're on only fans, et cetera.

And women have this perceived dilemma of choice because they're getting thousands of messages on social media apps, thinking that they could date all these men longterm when in reality, no. 

One of the problems that will happen, like is a girl who's moderately attractive, she'll go on a date with like a shortstop or a power forward.

She'll have sex with him one time and she'll tell all of her friends that she was dating him. Of course, she wasn't dating him. He's married. There's no pictures of the two of them together, but in her mind, she's stuck on her highest setting. So because she dated a six foot eight power forward, every man she dates from that point forward has to meet up to that.

She's been what the term we use in Red Pill is called Alpha Widowed. So now what's happened is the hottest, most, High status men she's ever dated. Every man has to compare to him. And because they can't, then now she's settling. She's settling. And the reality is she isn't settling.

Most men and women because of economics, they end up kind of where they're supposed to be. They generally do. Like, so if a woman is like, she's trying to date an eight and she ends up marrying a five. The reality is the guy she married wasn't a five. The guy she married was an eight, but because her entire view of men has been skewed so far to the left, she thinks she's dating a five.

She's actually dating an eight. And if you look across on the assortative mating scale, she's actually with the guy she's supposed to be with, but in her mind, she's settling. So that's what happens. And then because she thinks she's settling, then we get into the other part where 80 percent of divorces, 70 to 80 percent of divorces are initiated by. And we have a 56 percent divorce rate. So these women who are unsatisfied by their partners, they think why I've had to settle for this partner. I want to go back to chat Thundercock that I dated one time when I was so and so it's so do you know how many women I know that are like, dude, I've been engaged five times.

Ladies. Don't tell people you've been engaged five times. That is not a flex. That just means dudes were using you for sex and you don't, you're too dumb to realize what was going on. Nobody should ever be engaged five times. Okay. Or the women who there's so many times you know, I'm friends with Dan Bilzerian and girls will come to me and be like, yeah, I was dating Dan and I'll ask Dan about the girl.

And Dan's like, yeah, I just fucked that girl. Like twice. I have no idea. I don't even remember her last name. So in her mind, she was dating him and in his mind, he's like, this was just some girl I was having sex with. And I see women doing this all the time. And then complaining about those men.

Remember they're complaining about this top 10 percent of men, not all men. They're not complaining about the mailman. They're not complaining about the cashier. They're not complaining about the guy in the drive thru who gave them their Chick fil a. They're not complaining about that dude. They don't even see that dude because they would never date him.

So that's kind of where we are as a society. That's why there is a crisis in dating because of what I just described to you. And that's why red pill sort of popped up and because academia would not accept this premise. Academia did not accept the premise that men were suffering and that there was a group of men that were getting no attention from women because that happened. Then when Andrew Tate came out with his message, that's why he became so incredibly popular because there was a void in academia. Like, if you and I, we decided, let's say we're associate professors at like Cal Berkeley and we're like, Hey man, I have a great idea for a course.

I've seen all this data showing that the number when men have been divorced, I don't know if you know this, they're eight, eight times more likely to take their own life. Eight times more likely to take their own life. In general, men are four times more likely to take their own life than women.

Men are more likely to suffer from mental illness, more way more likely to be homeless, all these things. So if I, if you and me, we had a course, we went to Berkeley. It was like, Hey man, we're going to do a course. It's called why men suffer. What do you think the likelihood we'd be able to do a course at Berkeley called why men suffer?

It would never happen, but men are still suffering, even though academia didn't want to recognize it. And because there was this void, Richard Reeves, again, the PhD fellow at Brookings Institute, he said it best. He goes, Andrew Tate was our fault. We decided to not discuss this, the why men suffer. And because we decided to not. Discuss it. Andrew Tate became the most popular person in the world because there was this void where nobody was talking about.

[00:30:05] LW: So you made a lot of references there to women having certain preferences, and then you also talked about this term hypergamy, which I first heard about from Rolo. I'm not sure if Dr. Butts is the one that coined this term or

[00:30:17] MS: No, No, it's actually Sheryl Sandberg. There was actually women, so the term hypergamy comes, it didn't even come from there. It comes from it's from India places that have a caste system. Any country that has a caste system like South Africa or India, people who marry out hypergamy. That's where the term comes from.

[00:30:32] LW: Interesting. So, talk a little bit about. How that works. And then also, you know, I've watched the whatever podcast I've watched Fresh and Fit. I've seen you and Rollo talking to women and Not every single time, but more often than not, women tend to reject this idea or they see themselves at the, as the exception.

And I'm sure somebody listening or watching this right now is getting triggered. Just listening to you talk about these kinds of concepts. What is it about female nature? Because we know scientifically that the male brain and the female brain, they assess information differently. So what is it about the female nature that causes them to not really see what's happening in terms of their own preferences and the impact and influence they're getting from social media and from these guys that they're quotes dating that allows them to reject the other guys that are around you right now.

[00:31:25] MS: yeah. So this is a really complicated answer, and I wanna make sure I express this before I say anything. Women are more picky than men, and this is, and women so let's start with something women will agree with. Women are more picky than men. They have to be, women have the burden of gestation, meaning like, if a woman has sex with the wrong guy, we'll go we'll go back to the plasticy.

cave women. If a cave woman has sex with the wrong guy and raises a she can be ostracized from the tribe and that's basically death for her. And so women in general are more picky than men. There's a professor back in the 1970s named Robert Trivers who came out with this thing called parental investment hypothesis, which is the concept of in a two gender species, the gender that has more to lose or puts in more parental investment is going to be more selective.

The other part of this hypothesis was that the other gender was going to compete with members of that same gender for access to the more selective gender. And that's what we see. It is ubiquitous. There is no example anywhere in nature where this is not true, even in case of certain seahorses. There's a type of spider and there's a type of fish where the men actually carry the children to term and the females compete for the men.

There's a type of fish, I forgot what it's called, like a clownfish where the females are twice the size as the males and they compete for the males because the males are the ones who actually care, like they physically carry the eggs on their body. In this case, because women are more selective, when you look at this downstream, this is hypergamy exists.

And it's unchecked. You will all always in every society end up in a situation of polygyny, meaning there's going to be a few men at the top who get a ton of attention and a lot of men at the bottom who don't. When you have encouraged monogamy, like you see in certain like Middle Eastern countries or most, by the way, most men in Middle Eastern countries don't have multiple wives.

You have to be pretty wealthy to have multiple wives. Most men don't have multiple wives. Or in the United States where we have a Protestant ethic that causes us to have one wife when you have, or in India, where they have arranged marriages, you're actually going to see men in that bottom third or bottom quartile, at least get one wife.

And because of that, because more men have one wife, you actually have a greater population increase when you have polygyny, where you have a few men with multiple wives or multiple girlfriends, it actually stagnates the population and you have a bottom third of men who actually become violent. This is where you see generally you do recently.

We haven't seen it because of video games and porn. They sort of sedated the violent nature of men. And that's why we keep this problem. Just keeps getting more pernicious and more pervasive year after year. But going back to your original question was what with women the term delusion comes and it actually is the correct term to say delusional.

If I were to say, this is what reality is, and this is what you believe. And there's a Delta between the two. That Delta is delusion that's by definition, that's what it is. So what's happened is women will go on dating apps. And the reason it's not their fault. Remember what I said, initially, it's no one's fault.

This is a function of evolution. Women are more selective than men. When women go on dating apps because women are being right. Swiped on at a rate, 16, one, six, 16 times as much the average woman. Get 16 times as many matches as the average man on dating apps on Tinder. There are nine men for every woman because on these dating apps, women are seeing that they're being pursued at such an outrageously high rate.

They start to believe that some of these high tier men that they're right, swiping and matching with, they could get all of these men to Matt to. Settle down long term and all these lower status men who are matching with them. They could get them to settle down long term. And the reality is they can't.

And it takes them maybe about 10 years or so to come to the reality that every time they start dating Brock, the bartender, Chad the Chad Thundercock and street Steve, the male stripper, Victor, the VIP house, when they start dating these super either wealthy or good looking men, they come to the realization, wait, I thought I could get this guy to settle down.

I can't. And now next thing, you know, I'm 32, 33, 34, and then men are the problem. No, the problem was, and it's not again, not your fault. I'm not blaming women for this. The problem was you started receiving all these false indicators from social media, possibly an only fans and from dating apps that lets you think that men were competing for your long term commitment.

When reality men were competing for short term sexual access. Right. She went on a date with Drake. She fucked Drake one time. And now she believes that every guy that she dates from this point forward has to match up to drink. I'm using extreme examples because these are names you guys are aware of.

It's not usually Drake. It's usually like some guy, you know, she met at a bar who was some six foot three Australian male stripper with six pack abs and tattoo sleeves. And now she compares every guy she dated to that one night she had with this one guy. And so, because women get stuck on their highest setting, they start to believe that this is what they deserve.

So when you ask them, how much money does a guy have to make? In order for you to date them. And we've done this hundreds of times, whatever podcast does this fresh and fit podcast does this. We do this guys. We are not selecting for women who are dumb. We're so I'm specifically on my podcast. I specifically try to have women with master's degrees who are mothers or married.

I'm always looking for that. We do shows where none of the girls have only None of the girls are models. And in every case, we get the same answers. Women say they want to date men who make 400, 000 a year. They're not interested in men who are under six feet tall. And when we talk about 400, 000 a year, that puts you in the top 3 percent of wage earners.

I believe the top 1 percent is 816, 000 a year. Top 1 percent is 3. 3 million top 10%. I believe is 134, 000 a year. When women are saying, I want a guy who makes 400, 000 a year. six feet tall. We're talking about 0. 002 percent of men that they have to choose from. And they all believe that those men are capable and willing to settle down with these women.

And so, because of their, then the delusion exists because of this this delusion that they have, then that's where we get into these problems and they're like, Oh, I don't want to settle. There's one study that I love the study. It was one that Alex from date psyche, he gave out and he showed that basically women admit to willing, they're willing to settle for a guy who's a five and men are willing to settle for a woman who's an eight.

And so he, what he was trying to say is that women are not as selective as men are saying, but the part that Alex forgot is that women think most men. Are a five. Women think super good looking men who make 80, 000 a year are a five. Women think there's a great e harmony study that showed that women believe that 80%, 80 percent of men are below average attractiveness, 80 percent of men.

And so when you realize that, of course, women think they're dating a five because they think most men are a five. And so in reality, they're not a five. Like if you, I don't know if you've seen this one clip, I love this where this one woman is saying that Ryan Gosling is mid. Ryan Gosling is mid. So I want you to just so you lay any of you ladies out there who think Ryan Gosling is made, or you agree with it.

Just, I just want you to understand this is a psychological coping mechanism that you have so that you don't feel rejection from the fact that someone like Ryan Gosling would never date you in a million years. What's happened is if we were to take the dating profiles of a million men and then stratified where Ryan Gosling's dating profile with him, with his shirt off, it's a six pack abs.

Where would he be? He would be in the top one 10th of 1 percent of dating, meaning he would get that many right swipes. That's what Ryan Gosling would get. So to call him mid is just it's to say someone who's that attractive as mid is evidence of the delusion that I'm trying to express to you.

Does that make sense. Now, the other things that's happened is you see a lot of these like girls who used to do pornography. We'll see Mia Khalifa do this. We'll see Riley Reed do this. They'll get out of porn. And then after they get out of porn, they'll start dating men.

And then there's these men who are clearly not taking them seriously for longterm. Dating, well, eventually cheat or whatever. And then they start complaining about pornography. They started complaining about men are trash and all this kind of stuff, not recognizing, Hey, you did porn. That's the reason why a lot of men that you would have found you would have liked previously, don't take you seriously.

And then they get very angry. And the other one is there's a lot of men, there's nothing wrong guys. If you're out there and you want to date a single mom, I'm not telling you there's anything wrong with that, but there are a lot of men. Who are very high status who don't want to date a single mom and women find this to be horribly offensive, but in, from his standpoint, from a genetic standpoint, I'm raising someone else's genetics.

That's the reason why they have an issue with it. And so you see people like on the view and you see people like Chris GQ, Perry saying that men need to step up and date single moms. And you need to be more of a man and date single moms. There's nothing wrong if you want to date a single mom, but you're not better than me because you dated a single mom.

That doesn't make you a better person than me. And that's one of the issues that's another issue that I, by the way, I've dated single moms. For that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what happens is in general there's this belief that men should not select against women who are obese, select against women who are single mothers select against women who are covered in tattoos.

And when men express these preferences, they're dealt to be. Insecure, misogynistic, who hurt you, bro, small dick energy, all this kind of stuff. When men have these preferences, when women are asked who they want to date, I want to date a guy who's six feet tall. Why is that not small vagina energy? You know, like it's when women have a preference, there's no issue with women having a preference when men have a preference, it's misogynistic.

And that's the other thing that we've seen when women, men don't want to date women who are over, who are obese, that actually has to do with fertility. That's a problem when it comes to fertility. When women want to date men who are short. There's no real reason to not date a guy who's short. Most of the most capable fighters in the world are 5'9 Navy SEALs, the majority of Navy SEALs are not 6 tall.

The best boxers in the entire world, pound for pound, the most skilled boxers are not 6 tall. Some of the best MMA fighters are not 6 tall. Most dangerous men in the world are not 6 tall. And I'm saying this as a guy who's 6'1 Most, some of the baddest men in the entire world, Mike Tyson, when he was at his peak was five foot 10.

These guys are not six feet tall. So women choosing men who are tall to protect them is not really a viable strategy in 2024 women, men choosing women who don't have a super high body count, who are obese. That actually has to do with not getting cheated on. That's where that, and it has to do with being able to carry a child to term.

Now, everything I said, even though it is objectively true is going to come off as horribly misogynistic. And I'm going to say this. Because if you want to learn the truth, you need to understand this, that if something is true, it cannot be misogynistic. If something is true, it cannot be racist. If something is true, it cannot be bigoted.

If the G. S. Does a survey that shows that women who have cheated in a relationship on average have 236 230 percent more sexual partners before they're married than women who didn't cheat, then you can actually say there's a correlation between having a lot of sexual partners before you're married and cheating.

And by the way, same thing goes for men. I don't want to sit here and act like men who have a lot of sexual partners don't cheat because that men actually cheat more than women. What I'm saying is if I put that data out there, that a woman who's been previously been a sex worker, she's been with 30, a hundred men that she's more likely to cheat than less likely.

If I'm, if I say that, that's not misogynistic. If statistically I can prove it. And that's where we get into the rub. And that's why I get ratio. That's why people have a problem with my content with what I'm saying is objectively true. It cannot be bigoted. It cannot be misogynistic. And that's where people have a problem.

And I'm saying this from a person like, again, most of my friends are females. I have several like. And I love them and I tell them this stuff and originally they resist it. And then after a while, they realized they have to, if they want to get in a good, healthy relationship, they got to listen to some of the things I'm saying, because if they don't, they're going to continue to live in this world of delusion where they keep dating rappers.

And they keep dating that lawyers who, who have, who drive expensive cars and they keep wondering why they're never getting chosen for long term a commitment. And it's like, it's because of who you're choosing and they don't want to hear it. Initially, they don't want to hear it. Then eventually they do.

[00:42:41] LW: Yeah. And one thing I've seen you do that I really, I thought was really useful and effective is you'll ask them to answer a question for their friends instead of for them personally, because. That would that's great because then they really are objective because they don't pretend they're not performative when they're talking about their friends versus when they're talking about themselves.

But you mentioned healthy relationship right so let's spend a moment just talking about the women out there who would who just heard what you said, and they immediately say well I'm not looking to date. Drake or the equivalent of Drake in my neighborhood. Let's say I just want to date someone nice.

Okay. So there's a different conversation happening between who you're attracting and then how you show up in the relationship. And there's this whole thing about masculine and feminine, and she needs to be submissive and he needs to be a leader dah. So what does the research say about that too, for retaining a relationship?

[00:43:36] MS: So the worst thing that you can choose someone on this is for men or women. The worst attribute you can choose a long term partner on is physical appearance. The number one attribute we all choose a partner on is. Physical

[00:43:48] LW: Dating apps, it's 

[00:43:49] MS: Yeah, it is. It's just

physical appearance. And so we are literally being, we are being manipulated into only choosing partners based on physical appearance.

And I'm listen I'm one to talk, right? I'm as guilty as anybody in this category. But the thing is when you realize this stuff, it's like, We're so quick to try to get into the first thing. I'm going to tell you this You guys want to get into a really healthy relationship?

Start from a place of not needing to be in a relationship. That is the best piece of advice I give you find a life where you are fulfilled in other things guys There's 70 million homeless animals in this country spend your time rescuing animals and finding foster homes for animals Do that like I found that whenever I was depressed I just go rescue a cat like I'm that there's so many people there are so many Food pantries and soup kitchens in this country that need volunteers.

Find something internally where you find internal self worth before you need to get into a relationship. But build a business, get in the best shape of your life. There's all these things. I highly recommend I have a book list about 35 books. I recommend everybody live. By the way, the subtle art of not giving a fuck is on my book list.

I recommend guys go through, make it, make your life passion to go through 50 incredible books. Do things like that. Before you need to get into a relationship. Then once you do that, what happens is just imagine like you've just been evicted from your apartment when you've got to go find another apartment.

You're going to take the first spot. You can get, it doesn't matter. They can screw you over in your lease. It doesn't make any difference. Just imagine if you have the greatest apartment in the world and you just start viewing other apartments, you're on a month to month, because you don't really care, It's way better to rent a new apartment or to buy a new house when you already have a great house, rather than trying to buy one out of desperation, which is what most people do when they try to get into a relationship.

So number one thing I'm gonna tell you is stop coming from a place of wanting or lack when you're trying to get into a relationship, come from a place of abundance. If You do. So you're going to, have a much better time. Number two, and this is for women get like, there's a guy right now.

He's been messaging you for weeks. He's he messages you, you think he's kind of cute, but like, for whatever reason, he doesn't like, like your fire, give that guy a shot. I know it's hard. It's like, you're so dead. You want to put this guy in the friend zone because there are other guys that he doesn't compare to these other guys.

Give that dude a shot. Give the guy a shot. Who's willing. Here's what I like to say when women always ask me questions, because giving women advice is actually really simple. It's very simple. Ladies ready. Here's all the advice you need. You guys can send all those books back. You can, sorry, you don't need to watch.

The view or anyone else i'm going to give you the number one piece of advice And this advice will be true for all of you. It will make sense for all of you. How most of you will listen to me. You'll agree with me. And then you will not follow this piece of advice. Take your interactions with any man, go back through them and be like, okay, he did this.

Then he texts me and he said this, then he did this. And then he texts me and then he didn't show up for a date. Then he did this. And then I saw him liking this girl's post. And then he said this and then blah, blah, blah. Take the entire interaction. Take out all the words, no more words, just remove all the text messages, remove all the things he said, and only look at his actions, you will have a 100 percent correlation to what he believes about you.

All you have to do is look at his actions. Women are probably listening. It's like, yeah, he's probably right. That sounds like correct, but you aren't doing it. Hardly any of you do this. There's a reason why you're getting cheated on over and over again, because you're not doing what I just said. If you just take the words out, you're going to completely understand what he wants from you.

That it's that simple, but this is why women are like, Oh, I'm being gas lit or whatever. No, stop listening to the words. If you don't listen to a man's words and you only pay attention to his actions, he can't gaslight you. It's not possible. Right. And so that's what I tell them. That is the only, that's really that and having strong male figures in your life that you can go to for advice.

And the reason why I say strong male figures, the reason why I'm saying this, it could also be grandma. Grandma could be one of these people you need to get advice. From the opposite sex. I'll say this for men too. You need to get advice from the opposite sex, from someone who's not attracted to your partner.

Does that make sense? Meaning, if I have a female friend named Sally, and Sally's dating Brock, and it's very clear, like, Sally is super into Brock, the sex is incredible, she's getting gaslit like a motherfucker and she can't see it. I go and I see Brock and I'm like, I, and like, all the tattoo sleeves and the steroids and all the shit, it has no effect on me because I'm a heterosexual male.

So his, the spell he casts on Sally, he can't cast that spell on me. So I look at Brock objectively and I'm like, Bro, it says crypto influencer in his. Is bio like he's clearly a scam artist. That watch is like I have, I own actual Rolexes. That's a fake watch that he has. Like, I like, like I looked up the license plate on his Lambo.

It's a lease, bro. Like I can, I'm telling you, this guy's not, he's lying to you about everything. And then I, you know, I just go look up, like do a little background check. Turns out he's got a wife and kids. He's not telling you about because you 

[00:48:31] LW: is I've I've done that before, right? You read the situation for what it is and the confirmation bias is so strong in the woman that she'll attack you for pointing out

[00:48:42] MS: No, it's 

[00:48:43] LW: the things that you see in this 

[00:48:44] MS: like, like like here's, it's even worse. She'll dump him. She'll get back with him. And now she can never speak to you again because you called out the truth. She can never speak to him again. So here's the thing. The problem is this, here's another issue that I got to bring up.

This is, this should be like a brother or like a strong male friend, or maybe your father that should doing this. The problem is if it's a guy you used to date, then he looks like a snitch. And so that doesn't work. So that's also problematic. It's really not masculine for men to tell on each other.

So that's why like, I don't get involved in that case, but you should at least have a strong female friend or grandma. The reason why grandma is so powerful. It's because grandma's gone through menopause and grandma doesn't have these like hot, emotional, like, Oh my God, you're right. Billy's so fucking hot.

Grandma's seen it all. She's done it all. You notice how grandma knows when granddaughter is pregnant way before granddaughter knows because grandma's seen some shit. She already knows. Ask grandma, what do you think about my boyfriend? But women just don't want to do this. If you actually had a third party, examine your relationship.

Where there's no emotion involved, you're completely dispassionate and they can look past the words. That is the number one piece of advice that I can give to women. It is life changing advice. It really, I have girls come to me all the time. And I and the problem for me is like, if I know the dude, I'm never going to snitch on him.

What I am going to say is when I am going to tell her is say something to the effect of, why don't you check? Why don't you ask some of his exes or talk to some of his friends, what he's like? And when she comes back to me, she's like, yeah, she doesn't want me. He doesn't want me talking to any of his friends.

And he says that all of his exes are crazy. All of them are crazy. How many exes? Eight. So he has eight crazy exes. That sounds right to you. All of his exes are crazy. That makes sense to you, bro. Lemme tell you something, anybody out there, if you have had 10 roommates in a row that you think are assholes, you are the asshole.

If you haven't figured this out, okay, you are the problem. And so, I try to be friends with all my exes. I always wanna leave them better. If any of my exes are watching this, you're all wonderful people. Put your mind to anything. You can accomplish anything. I wish you all nothing but the best. Right. I don't know.

None of all you guys are correct. All you guys are wonderful people. The but the thing is what you'll see often with women is they'll get into the situation where they're not being validated they're they're dating men who are, I hate to say this, cause women are not going to like this.

You're choosing men that are out of your league, not for sex. You can definitely have sex with them. If a woman wants short term sexual access, she can go to the top. She can get a guy who's a solidified 10, but if she wants commitment long term, she needs to be more realistic about who she can attract or who she can get to commit.

And because women are not realistic about that, what they do is they allow men. To just be like, yeah, baby, whatever. And like, the other thing is like, I'm sure you've seen this before. Men aren't even gaslighting these women. I've been in situations before where I straight up tell a woman I am not, look at me.

I am not going to be your boyfriend. No matter what you say, I'm not going to be your boyfriend. Don't try to change me. Don't clean my house. Make me food. Don't do any of this shit. You can do it if you want. I'm not going to be your boyfriend. I'm not interested in a relationship right now. And then they'll date you for six months.

They'll keep sleeping with you and they'll call you a narcissist because you don't want to be their boyfriend. Even though you told them this, I see this all the time, especially when you're having really good sex with a woman. She starts to, but like, she started, no, I can change him. I can change him. I can change him.

Don't blame men when you've decided to try to change them. That's not the man's fault for not wanting to change. So that's another issue that I've seen. That's happened frequently and with men, the other main problem, like the main problem with men, they all think they're worthless men think they're worthless.

Now I'm not talking about this top 10 percent of men. They don't think they're worthless. Most men, they give it a first date can please go on a date with me. Oh my God. I like you so much. Please. I'm so interested in you. Let me give your phone number. If I go and meet a girl in a venue, you. We're going to talk for a while before I even approach the idea of getting her phone number.

She needs to show me she's interesting and interested enough to where I'm going to eat. Like she has to earn a date for me. And I know that I'm sorry, if that sounds horribly narcissistic, men just give it up for free. They act like they're worthless. They walk up to women and show so much interest to women who've done nothing to earn it.

These men act like they're completely and totally worthless. They subscribe to porn sites and only the only fans are paying all this money to these only fan content, but they're having these conversations with these girls, they're simping off on, on, on what's it called? Sex Panther and Eros and seeking arrangement and they're paying women an allowance and they think they're good with women, all this kind of stuff.

And why is because these men think they're worthless. Dude, I'm here to tell you, you're not worth. If you feel like you're worthless, if you really feel like you have to give women that much validation, just because she has big boobies, you need to come see me, bro. Cause I'll help you, but there's no reason you should ever feel that worthless that you would do something like that.

You following girls around the club, stalking girls, blah, blah, blah, bro. I will, unless I got a rule, very strong rule. I will never like a girl who's in a bikini photo on Instagram. I will never like a photo of a bikini unless I'm in the photo, like one of my bikini competitions that I hosted. I don't like that non contextualized, sexualized images on social media should not be liked by men.

If she pays off her house, like that photo. If she has a daughter like that photo, she gets married. Like that photo. She graduates from college. Like that photo. She takes a picture where she's mashing her boobs together on Cabo San Lucas or Dubai. Don't like that photo guys. Stop liking those photos. Stop giving women attention for nothing.

They did nothing to earn it. And you're acting like you're worthless. And because you act like you're worthless, then women are consistently taking advantage of you. And they also find you unattractive. So stop acting worthless. Women start paying attention to his actions and not his words. Men stop acting worthless.

That would fix a lot, but no one's going to listen to me. So who knows,

[00:54:07] LW: Well, I'm sure at the very least, everyone has an opinion about you at this point in the conversation. So let's fill in the gap. What's the origin story? You're from East Dallas. You know, you've, you went to UT and all this stuff to talk a little bit about your upbringing. Your mom is Colombian. How does that work?

How'd you bro? 

[00:54:23] MS: I've been, I I, you guys, so I, there's several different AI apps that you guys can use, and most people are using chat, GBT. Let me highly recommend perplexity. Perplexity is probably the best one because it used chat, GBT and all these other ones. I was looking up myself last night because there was this girl I was on a date with and I said, and I had perplexity look her up and it found out all this crazy data about her that she couldn't believe that perplexity found perplexity.

ai. And so I looked up myself guys, apparently perplexity thinks that I'm five foot nine, and I'm 36 years old. I'm 47 years old. I'm six foot one perplexity said that I was an air force pilot. I was an air force navigator. I was not a pilot. I was never said I was a pilot. There's all this crazy stuff. So I just want to straighten that out just before anybody thinks I was born in 1977.

I wasn't born in, I don't know when it said 1984 or some shit. I forgot what it said. Anyway I grew up in East Dallas. I went, I grew up in a nice neighborhood, went to an all white Baptist church, and I went to high school in a terrible neighborhood. Anyone from Dallas, I grew up in Lakewood. I went to high school at Woodrow Wilson during the crack epidemic in the nineties, the early nineties.

So when I was Going to high school, the Cowboys were winning super bowls and that's when the ghetto boys, UGK and eight ball and MJG were making records. And this was like the ultimate expression. Like the crime rate was outrageous in the city of Dallas because crack cocaine had flooded the city. And that's when I went to high school in east Dallas.

Several of my friends were shot. Several of my friends went to jail for multiple decades for selling crack cocaine. This was my. This is my upbringing. I would go to home and I would go to an all white Baptist church, Wilshire Baptist church on like Mockingbird. And then I would go to, I would go to. I would go to high school just south of Abrams and Columbia right there at Woodrow Wilson High School.

And it was metal detectors. It was gang fights, all this kind of stuff. So I had a dichotomy growing up where I would play football and all the guys that play football were either black or hispanic. And I would go to church and there was no, I did not see a single black or hispanic person there. It was very, that's how my upbringing was.

That's why I see both sides of it. Okay. When I went to college, and I go to UT Austin. And if you guys know UT Austin is 98 percent white. And so I went to UT Austin and when I was there, I joined an all black Christian fraternity. So I was only surrounded by African American men throughout my college experience, like the

[00:56:28] LW: Which one.

[00:56:29] MS: Gamma Phi Delta.

[00:56:30] LW: Okay.

[00:56:31] MS: Gamma Phi Delta Christian fraternity. And yeah, it's a G O D Gamma Phi Delta, right? It's a little bit off. And I was doing step shows with G because I

was, everybody I grew up with, everybody I grew up with that was African American. I played, that's all I did. And so when I went to college, I was like, dude, there's no black people around her.

So I found a black fraternity. I joined it. And it was like, the only time I ever saw any black people was when I did that. So I graduate from college. I get out MCI, Worldcom and Enron go out of business. Do you remember when this happened? I mean, some of you probably not old enough to remember this.

Enron was, they were cooking the books. They were taking all their losses and the liabilities and they're putting them off on balance sheets of other minor companies. And then finally, once the chickens came to roost, Enron ends up going bankrupt. And MCI WorldCom, which was doing their accounting also goes bankrupt. And one of the major accounting firms, there were five major accounting firms. One of them went bankrupt too. I can't remember exactly the whole story. Anyway, we had a, before the crash of 08, we had a crash of 2000. There was a dot com bubble. And then there was a crash of MCI WorldCom and Enron.

That's when I graduate from college. So I ended up working at a strip club, like, and this is where like kind of my red pill moment happened because when I was working at the strip club as a DJ. One of the things I noticed was all the things that my church, my family, and Disney told me about women. And then I would go into the locker room and I would just see these women who were at the time, the most attractive women, physically most attractive women I've ever seen in my life and consistently dealing with like spousal abuse drug addiction.

And then You saw like seven of them fighting over the same worthless broke dude. And I was like, what is going on here? This is not what I was taught. Now, obviously I'm not trying to indicate that strip clubs are indicative of all women or even a poor, a small percentage of women, but women in general do have the same attraction triggers, regardless of whether a stripper or a virgin, they do have the same attraction triggers.

By the way, men do too. This is 

[00:58:11] LW: I have a, a clarification. How did you end up in the, I mean, you studied information systems. How'd you end up at a strip club? What? Why'd you go there and apply

[00:58:19] MS: So I went out initially, I went and applied as a consultant to several different firms, and they all said we can't hire anyone because of the there's hiring freeze all over the country. So I went to GameStop, ironically, yes, the same GameStop that was part of that whole short squeeze fiasco a couple years ago.

I went to GameStop and I was going to sell video games because I love playing video games. There was no streaming jobs back there. Being a pro Madden player, which was my dream, I couldn't do that back then. It wasn't really like feasible for me to do that. So, I ended up going to GameStop. They said they were going to hire me.

And they said they had a hiring freeze. I was the head door guy at a bar. On sixth street called Amazon shot bar, I think it's like 306th street, 300 West six, three, somewhere around there, just three blocks East of Congress. And then one of the bartenders, she was getting her PhD from John Jay university in forensic psychology, and she was paying for it by stripping.

And she came to me and she goes, Hey, we need a new DJ over at expose, which is on Congress. It's called red Rose now. And it was like, we need a new DJ. So I go in there. And I'm mortified. I'm like, dude, am I really going to have to tell my parents that I'm working in a strip club? I didn't want to do this.

I have a degree in management information systems. I studied astrophysics in college and I'm sitting here in the strip club. And I'm like, it's kind of cool. Cause there's like naked girls, but at the same time, I'm like, fuck man. Is this what my life has come to? Am I like this? So I get on the microphone and I suck for like the first 15 minutes.

And then the guy gives me like a pattern to say. And by the end of the first hour, they just offer me the job. They're like, you are perfect for this job. And so what happens is because I'm good enough to talk on the microphone for eight hours interrupted, which is basically what I have to do working in the strip club.

That's one of the reasons why later on, when I started the podcast and started doing all these other things, it was so comfortable for me because I would talk on the microphone for eight hours a day. Oh, you know, introducing girls on stage. But the other thing that happened, like this was kind of nuts. You know, you watch American football, obviously you watch American football.

Okay. So, you know, there's a head. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, there's a head coach and there's an offensive coordinator, right? The head coach at a strip club is the general manager or whoever the floor manager is that day. The offensive coordinator is the

[01:00:19] LW: The dj.

[01:00:19] MS: I got to go back in the dressing room like ready.

We're going to run this play. You're going to go here on this stage. You're going to do this ready break. It really was like that for me. I was running the strip club like I was a football coach because it's like, you don't have time.

[01:00:31] LW: as a DJ in the strip club. What does that pay?

[01:00:32] MS: I mean, okay. Remember guys, just think about inflation. I'm making about 45 grand a year, all cash.

I'm sorry, 22, 000 a year. If you're the IRS listening right now yeah you're getting paid in tips now, guys, I want you to think about, I know it doesn't sound like a lot of money right now, 45, 000 a year in 1999 was a good amount of money for a single guy living in Texas with no state income tax.

That was a good amount of money. And I had friends of mine who worked nighttime, like. Friday night shifts and they're making a hundred K a year, a hundred thousand dollars a year in 1999, getting paid all in cash. That was good money back then, bro. And so the problem that would happen, like, as I was sitting there, I met this one guy named Tony Q. He was at the men's club in San Antonio. For all I know, he's still at the men's club in San Antonio. Tony Q had been working at the men's club in San Antonio for 19 years, put two of his daughters through college. And it was like, he was, this guy was morbidly obese.

And it was very clear to me because of how much money he was making, he was never going to leave this job. And I was sitting there and I was making good money. I was looking at stacks of cash in my apartment. Taking it to the bank every week. And I remember thinking to myself, like, dude, if I don't do something, I'm going to end up as a DJ at a strip club for 25 years.

And then 9 11 happened and I watched 9 11 happen at the strip club. I show, I went up early cause we had to, we had like a manager's meeting. I was sort of a manager at the same time when I was a DJ. I would, I was also like kind of a floor manager. It was like kind of a hybrid position I had. And I remember watching the towers fall and the first fall tower fall.

And I was like, man, what a tragedy. The second tower fell and I got angry. I remember just getting angry, like who the fuck did this to us? And two of my fraternity brothers from the Christian fraternity. Marcus Cole and Antonio Edwards. They join as a one of them becomes an aviator in the Navy and the other one becomes an aviator in the Marine Corps and I end up and I end up talking to him about it and I'm like, you do screw this.

I'm joining them joining the Marine Corps. So I went to go join the Marine Corps. They had no officer spots open and I end up joining the Air Force.

[01:02:17] LW: Before we get to that part, there's a couple things I want you to talk about. You said you got red pilled. So talk about how that happened in that strip club. And then

also, also talk a little bit about What your relationship was like with dating and girls, were you getting a lot of girls where you fit as you were six one and how and so, so we can understand that evolution as well.

[01:02:37] MS: I was imagining a guy who goes to the gym all the time and eats like shit. That's the best way to say it. So, so definition of my upper body, but had this blob of fat around my waist. That's probably the best way. And I'm like that until I'm 33 years old, until I really get my diet dialed in, I would, it was afraid to take my shirt off.

Definitely not in shape, but I looked okay. The issue for me, the red pill moment, never forget it. It was a girl named Cassidy. That was a stripper name. She came into work and had a black eye. All the girls, we are in the back. We're looking at her. This girl had a black eye. I'm 22 years old. I don't know how to deal with this.

This is the first incident in my entire life dealing with any kind of domestic abuse or physical violence, any, my parents never laid a fucking finger on each other. They were together till the day my dad died. I was not aware of this, and I'm watching this girl, Cassie, and I felt horrible for her.

She just got punched in the face by her boyfriend. All the girls are consoling her. A girl, you can do better, blah, blah, blah. She's putting concealer on to cover up the fact that she has a black eye. That's not my red pill moment. My red pill moment. Was when she told us all that she was leaving him and light, you know, what happened next?

Why don't you tell the audience what happened next? What do you 

[01:03:34] LW: She got She got back together with him 

[01:03:36] MS: and 

got 

[01:03:37] LW: console

[01:03:37] MS: eye and got 

[01:03:38] LW: cried in 

your pride in your arms.

[01:03:40] MS: and got put this was in the dressing room, got punched in the eye again, this is the first time I'd ever seen this. Now, this is a tragedy. This domestic abuse is a tragic event.

But the problem is, from my standpoint, I'm supposed to believe that not only like no woman would ever allow this. Like, why would this happen? Why would a woman stay with a guy who hit her? Like, it didn't make any sense to me. No one gave me information for me to understand what was going on here. That was the first thing.

But the second thing, this was the, that was. That was the point at which I was disillusioned, not red pills. When I was red pills happened because the most attractive girl at the strip club, her name was joy. Never forget this joy. Love to flirt with me. Joy was married. Joy. Love to flirt with me because she knew that if she flirted with me, like she would just, and she tipped me well too.

Cause she made more money than anyone else. Joy like legitimately could have been a playmate and there's every strip club has one girl. That's like this. We call them shack because they just dominate all the other girls. Like they're just so much hotter than the other girls. Joy would come. Joy, because joy was trying to get a, I think she's trying to get a real estate license.

She had a different schedule. So she would work day shift with me every once in a while. And she loved me because I would always play her favorite songs. And of course, like I'm 22, joy's the most beautiful woman anyone had ever seen. I couldn't believe how caught this girl was. And she would come sit on my lap in the DJ booth.

She put her shoes on. She would flirt with me for hours. And I was like, in love with this girl. I was like, couldn't believe how hot she was, but she was married. I was like, yeah, this is never going to happen. Joy would always complain about Ryan. Ryan was the other daytime DJ and she fucking hated Ryan.

She would talk about Ryan was mean to her. Ryan was so ugly to her. Ryan would never fucking play the song she wanted. She would argue with Ryan. She would tell me how arrogant it was. And she'd tell me how much she loved me, Michael. You're so sweet to me. And I was like, Oh my God, this is incredible. We don't see joy for like a month.

Joy comes back in the strip club. And I'm talking to her, I was like, Hey, what's going on? How's everything going? She goes, Oh, me and my me and my husband broke up. It's like, Oh, that's crazy. That sucks. And I'm like, man, finally, like, I'm like, finally, I got a chance with joy. She sits on my lap every day.

I like, I finally have a shot with joy. This is finally going to happen. And she goes, I go, what's been happening? He goes, well, it's been rough because I've been moved all my stuff into Ryan's house.

[01:05:39] LW: And he was a little dude too, right? Right.

[01:05:41] MS: No, that's a different story about the girl who shit on herself. That's a different, so like, like, yeah, no, you're complaining a different story. That's Johnny who was shorter.

[01:05:48] LW: Okay. Okay. Okay. 

[01:05:49] MS: she literally Ryan was shorter than me. But like, the thing is like, like she, the guys, she complained about to me every day at work there, they got engaged not even a year later.

And I was, that was my red pill moment. That was actually my red pill moment 

[01:06:03] LW: So that taught you what don't believe what people say.

[01:06:06] MS: Yes. Only pay attention to their actions and that men who a lot of times women will again, dude, we don't complain about things that don't affect us. We only complain about things that affect us.

Do you understand what I'm saying? Like you and me did not wake up this morning being like, man, I cannot believe the amount of inflation with the Indian rupee. We don't give a fuck about that because it doesn't affect us. When women complain about men who are players, why are they complaining about men who are players?

Are they complaining about men who are players because they don't sleep with them or because they do sleep with them? And that was something that I started to learn. I was just like, okay. Well, a lot of times women will state something emphatically and the opposite is true. She, what she was expressing to me, not that Ryan was an asshole, what she was expressing to me is that she was attracted to him.

She, but she didn't know how to manifest and she didn't know how to express that she was attracted to him other than by saying he's an asshole because the dissonance she's being treated poorly by a guy and she's. married and she's becoming super attracted to him. So the only way for her to complete the dissonance circle is for her to tell me that he's an asshole.

And I didn't understand that. In fact, I didn't even understand it after it happened. It took years for me to figure out what was going on. But one thing I did know, whatever Disney, my church and my family was telling me wasn't true like that. Their belief is I'm just going to be, I'm just going to get a master's degree and get a good job.

And I deserve a good woman that God is going to send me. I figured that shit out real quick. That wasn't true. And so that, that's what, that was my first. red pill moment. The second one that was the 11 of the ones you're referring to. I was the hottest girl. There's another strip club in Austin. There's a girl named Christina.

I'm still friends with, she's one of my good friends. I love her to death. Christina and I went on a date. We bumped into each other behind one of the night clubs and we were talking forever and we just started making out we're in this alley. And I was like, this is the hottest groups, green eyes, insane body, like curly blonde hair.

She was so insanely hot. So we hang out a couple of times. I get her number. And we go on a date. I take her on a couple of dates and I'm just like super fucking try hard. I don't know what I'm doing with this girl. I'm 21. She is the hottest. She's easily one of the top five hottest girls in all the fucking Travis County.

This girl is so beautiful. And we hang out a couple of times and she tells her friend. She's like, I just don't see Michael that way. I just want to be friends with him. And it was like kind of heartbreaking, but at the same time, she was so far out of my league, it wasn't that big of a deal. Here's the part you were talking about.

Like a couple of weeks later, I'm working at Amazon shop bar. This is before I worked at strip club. She walks in with another dude. She has the audacity to come into my bar. What with another dude? And this guy is six inches shorter than me. His name's Dion. He's another good friend of mine. And Dion looks like I'm just looking at this guy and I can't express to you how confident and cocky this guy looked.

I cannot like this guy looked like he was ready to fight all the time. He just looked, he had this Arab insane level of confidence about him. And I'm six one. And this guy, I'm not kidding. He's maybe five, seven, five, eight. And he's walking around with this stunning blonde all through my bar. And I'm like, what the, like, not only did she friends on me, she had the audacity to bring this other dude to my bar.

And I'm not kidding. Three weeks later, she told me she was pregnant by, she had her first kid with this dude. And that was another situation where I was like, okay, I was being taught one thing to be this like good, wholesome, God fearing. I remember we prayed before we ate all this shit. And then afterwards, then seeing who she ended up like having a kid with, and just coming to realization, okay, now I understand what I was being taught.

Isn't true. It doesn't mean you need to be an asshole, but the guys who held their own frame and maintained a certain level of like boundaries, those are the ones women found more attractive. And I didn't know that at the time and no one was, no one wanted to teach me that. And he teaching men that today even comes off as toxic and it's not toxic.

It's just true. Women complain often about like patriarchal attributes of a society, but the problem is patriarchy is basically manifest through male aggressiveness, assertiveness, and ambition. Well, when women are surveyed in every society, guess what attributes they find most attractive in men, aggressiveness, assertiveness, and ambition.

If women keep rewarding, aggressive, assertive, ambitious men with sex, they're going to have aggressive, assertive, ambitious babies. So the women keep rewarding the attributes that they complain about with sex. They're going to, the society is obviously going to get more and more patriarchal and women hate this discussion because what I'm doing is basically blaming women for why there is a patriarchy and I'm not blaming anyone.

It's just a function of evolution. But what happens is men is women will say things like, what would they say? I want a man who will buy me flowers. No, you don't. If you, if there was a man you weren't attracted to, bought you flowers and he brought flowers to your work, you would think he was a creeper.

And you know, I want a man to be more vulnerable. Sure. I'll have a homeless guy walk up to you. I'll film it. A homeless guy walk up to you and be like, Oh my God, I'm having like a rough time right now. Like emotionally, like I'm not really dealing with this whole homeless thing very well. Your vagina is not going to get wet because I'm homeless.

Guy came up to you was more vulnerable.

[01:10:29] LW: They mean they want Ryan Gosling to bring

them 

[01:10:31] MS: Yes. It's so insane. Like why women just please add this one caveat to your speech. You don't want a nice guy. You don't want a man to buy you flowers and you don't want a man to be more vulnerable to you. You want a man you're attracted to, to buy you flowers.

You're a man you're attracted to, to be more vulnerable to you. A more attract a man you're attracted to, to be nice to you. If you would just say that. But the problem is it's trying to explain to a fish. What water is women are not, cannot conceive of the idea of being attracted to anyone. They're not attracted to for men.

We know every guy here who has even the slightest bit of game, you know, you've met a girl who wasn't attracted to you. You've done a couple of things. And then all of a sudden she became attracted to you. But in her mind, she was always attracted. They always reverse analyze this thing. And they're like, Oh, I was always attractive.

No, you weren't. He did a couple things. You saw his ex girlfriend. You saw how other people reacted to him. You know, he, you know, the Lamborghini pulled up, whatever it was, you weren't attracted to him. Then you became attracted to him as men. We know we can generate attraction with women, because they're just the concept of generating attraction with women is so foreign to them.

If you guys want to see a great example of this, If you have a girlfriend who's bisexual and you guys pick up women together, watch how she has no idea what she's doing. Like when she goes and tries to talk to women she has no clue because she's never been rejected before so she's like She's not aware of how to like approach a woman So she does it's one of the craziest things ever if you've ever seen a bisexual woman like try to pick up a woman It's so weird because she doesn't know what to do because she's never generated attraction with a woman She's just been hot her whole life when you

[01:11:56] LW: only date bisexual women. So you've seen this a lot.

[01:11:59] MS: yes, that's not true that I only date bisexual women, but I tend to end up with bisexual.

Yes that's probably more accurate way to say I tend to end up with bisexual, but the reason why is because bisexual women see all the women in my life and they tend to be more attracted to me. If that makes any sense, like bisexual women want to

[01:12:15] LW: you've also said it allows you to be more honest than you're able to be otherwise.

[01:12:19] MS: I would prefer to date a woman who dates women with me together. Now I'm not, that's not, I would say previously that was a career ender that was like a non negotiable. It's an, it's not because my business means so much to me now I could be monogamous with one woman, but she would have to be, I'm talking. The thing for me is like, I watch like Layla and Alex Hermosi the way Layla Hermosi supports Alex's business and those people are going to become billionaires together. I would need that kind of relationship for me to be monogamous with one woman. I would need a woman who was like so down to actually help grow the empire.

That's the only way I'm going to be monogamous with one woman. Otherwise, I'm probably just, there's so many, I live in Las Vegas. There's so many women to choose from here that are. Comfortable seeing other women that I'm probably not going to just give that up right now that's it. You know, so I mean, it's just people have different preferences.

 Ladies, you want a guy who's tall. Okay. I want a woman who's not judgmental. That's it. You know, we can all have our picks.

[01:13:09] LW: All right. So you're going into the military. And you wanted to be in Marine, but you ended up in the Air Force. You learn a lot about leadership and accountability. Talk a little bit about that.

[01:13:19] MS: So that was probably the most, one of the most important things. Oh, we just came out with a video yesterday. It's so funny. Like if I do videos on like women being

delusional 

[01:13:26] LW: walking videos. By the way. I saw the one you

[01:13:28] MS: Oh, you liked the Osmo. Yeah. If I make videos about women being delusional, tens of thousands of views, people go nuts over those videos.

I put out a video yesterday about being a great leader and how it actually helps you get women. No crickets guys. Let me explain some to you. I'm explaining to you. Any of you guys out there that are listening to this and you're like, I, Michael. I want tons of options with women. I want tons of options when it comes to where I can work.

Tons of options of hiring employees. The number one, the most underrated quality you can learn about is leadership. If you can be an incredible leader, you will get all the options you could ever want. Being able to lead is so like, again, consider a leadership. I'll give you like a couple of examples.

One example, leadership is you work at a company where you let all of your employees know, Hey, listen, I'm here to serve you. I'm here to take responsibility when things go wrong, when stuff goes wrong, there's going to be an open line of communication. You're never gonna have to fight to get ahold of me.

And I'm always here to make a decision. Your employees are going to fight and die for you. They're going to legitimately want to be working at a company where they get clear, concise, direct leadership. There's no lack of communication or there's no indirect or passive aggressive communication. That's a great place to work. So that's an example of you being a leader. Making your company better. But here's another thing for me, just imagine Sarah comes into town. She's in Vegas. She's having a birthday party. And she's like, well, you know, we're in town. We don't know what to do. Done, girl. I got you. You call up a couple of hosts.

You get her a comp at a poppy steak. She goes on stage at live to go see John summit. And then afterwards you go to like an after party at some other place. You got the whole thing comped. You didn't pay for any of it. And when you show up, you're like ladies getting the truck or like getting the whatever the van, the truck, the party bus, like you just lead the whole interaction.

Next thing you know, you're a dude that shows up at clubs with 20 or 30 girls. There's no more dating. At that point, women are fighting for you at that point, just because you learn how to have put a little fucking base in your voice and actually tell people, guys, we're going to be here at this time. And then we're going to go here.

Just a little bit of accountability, a little bit of like subject matter expertise, and a little bit of confidence. You do that. And all of a sudden like. This is, if you guys want examples of it, just go to my Instagram. You can see pictures of me with like hundreds of girls. And the reason why is because I take a leadership responsibility and all of these social interactions, just like I did when I was an officer in the military.

When you do that, you it's incredible. Like again, dude, I host bikini competitions. I host these photo shoots. We'll have like these mansion photo shoots. I'll tell all the girls will be here at this time. All the photographers will be at this time. I put everyone in the room. I give a speech. I tell these photographers, you're going to go over here and shoot with these girls.

You're going to shoot with these girls. Then you guys are going to swap. I do this. And at the end, the girls are asking me for my number. They're like, they want to hang out with me. They're liking all my photos and guys don't understand. It's like, well, because I'm a leader, what did I, what was I able to do?

I was able to show masculine attractive attributes without showing intent. I was able to passively show that I am an attractive masculine man without giving any intent. So now she's the one who's chasing. Let me tell you something, it's a hundred times easier when she's the one who's chasing. And so that's why I tell guys all the time, being an incredible leader is the most underrated attribute when it comes to dating.

 And then the last one is if you're dating a girl and like last night we took this girl to Mastro's, we went to Mastro's. She didn't have to order. She didn't have to worry about shit. She didn't have to worry about where to park. Everything was handled effortlessly by me. I didn't even have to look at the menu.

I had it memorized. I've been to master so many times. Everything was flawless. She had an incredible time. She's like hugging on me. She's like, Oh, she had such a stressful week. And she was like, when I'm with Michael, I don't have to worry about anything cause he takes the lead. That's it. And she has she's been writing me all day.

She's like, I had the most incredible time last night. She didn't have to think about anything because I led the whole way. Okay. And so that's the thing guys, learning how to be an unbelievable leader is incredible. So I recommend Jocko Willick's book extreme ownership and a dichotomy of leadership.

I would also recommend not necessarily for leadership, but more for like motivation. I would recommend David Goggins. First two books can't hurt me and never finished. I would recommend those books as well, but the leadership dynamic is so incredibly underrated. I'm the only person in this dating manosphere space who teaches leadership. I think maybe MLB does. I'm not positive, but I think I'm the only one who teaches it in this space. And in the e comm space, there's not a lot of leadership. There's no dating. So basically what I did was take the whole. You know, become professionally viable, become a great leader, a communicator, networker, and the dating space.

And I put it all together in one program, which is my program, men of action, the most comprehensive male self improvement program ever created. No disrespect to Tony Robbins. My program is more comprehensive than anyone who's ever created a program like this.

[01:17:51] LW: You have a lot of women who would hear this and they'll think, Oh, this guy is, you know, working all these angles and using all these tactics. And I just want someone who's romantic and someone who's being natural. 

[01:18:03] MS: be nice. Isn't it? Really? You want someone who's just natural. You're telling me you're hot. You just go to a date and it just works out for you. That's crazy. You're telling me, honey, you go to a bar and you just never have to pay for drinks. Is it because of your charisma? Is that what you think it is?

Like must be nice to not have to think about shit when you go on a date. That must be incredible.

[01:18:19] LW: Are you suggesting that that they just don't understand that men in general have to approach? Again, this is evolutionary psychology. Men have to come up with tactics for hunting and making sure they procure whatever resources that they need. 

[01:18:34] MS: Men have to come up with tactics to compete. So hypergamy is not women comparing women to men or comparing men to women Hypergamy is women comparing men to other men women don't understand the level of competition like when my girlfriend would tell me hey Let's just stand and watch netflix.

I'm like Someone's trying to take my business. Like I can't stand and watch Netflix. Like someone literally wants me, like, it doesn't new videos about me. It came out. Like I have to work. I don't have, I don't have the options. Like, let's just eat this food. I'm like, I'm 47. Like you're 20, you're in your early twenties and you're stunning.

You can eat whatever you want. I can't do that. I can't live like you. I have to compete every day to maintain where I am in the world. Sorry if that seems ugly or terrible to you ladies. Ladies and gentlemen who are listening to this, you guys are going to go to a therapist. Women often do have a burden performance, but they don't have to have a burden of performance.

There's a world that you can live in as a woman where you can be very attractive and have a man take care of you. I'm not saying that's always the case, but women don't have to have a burden of performance. Women can be the passenger and they can be the captain. Men can only be the captain.

There's no reality where a man doesn't have a burden performance. I don't care who you are, unless you're a trust fund kid or insanely good looking or talented. You have a burden of performance all the time as men. 

95 percent of therapists under the age of 30 or female so when you go to your therapist, she, if she doesn't tell you that you have a burden performance, fire, your therapist, as a man, you always have a burden of performance. Never forget that no matter how special, no matter how many breathing exercises you do.

And if you go to go yoga and do aspirations, telling yourself that you're enough, no matter what you want to believe about yourself, I got bad news for you. None of you guys are watching this. None of you are enough. None of you. If you can sit there and say all the vows you want at your wedding about through richer, poor and sickness and health. Just look at the data. It's very clear. That's not the case. As soon as you lose your job, the likelihood of her getting divorced from you, like triples quadruples. If you don't believe me, ask James section about this. But the question you were asking before is an unbelievable video.

This girl, she goes off and she takes her. Guys, male dating profile over. So this girl's cute. I say this girl's like probably like an eight and she says that I'm going to take this profile of this guy Steve's a six and I go and I take Steve's dating profile. Steve tells me it's impossible for him to get a date on this dating profile.

And it's like, he's a pretty average looking guy. I'm going to take over his dating profile. It's like, Steve, I don't know what you're talking about. I go on dating profiles. I get dates all the time. I'm a woman. It's easy for me to get dates. She takes the dating profile and she's like. After three days, she, this is her words.

I'll play, I'll send you the video. She's like, I'm starting to hate women. It's like, I'm having to write, swipe on twos and threes. And they're rejecting me. It's like, I don't understand. I'm an average looking guy. I should be able to get some matches on a dating app, but I can't get any. And she's like. She, the woman on the thing, she's like, I'm starting to cry.

She's like, I literally feel horrible about myself because I'm sitting there. had no idea how incredibly mean women are to average looking men. I had no idea it was this hard for guys to get a date. And that's like, that's the difference is like women totally do not understand the plight of most men.

What they do is they look at these couple of guys who had sex with them on the first date and they never called them back. They think that all men are like this. I remember one time I was doing a show in Miami and she's like, well, the problem is the men in Miami, all they care about is their Bugatti's and all they care about is all the money they have.

And I was like, honey, less than one 10th of 1 percent of men who live in Dade County have a Bugatti. And like, she just couldn't conceptualize because the only men she saw had Bugatti's. That's all she could see. And she didn't see the average man she left swiped on in the dating app as even being a man.

She didn't see it. There's another video. I think it's phenomenal. So that one video I told you about the woman's using a male dating profile and she's like crying because she realized how mean men are to women. The second one was there was a woman she went undercover as a man. She started dressing like a man talking like man.

She did this for like, like six or seven years. And at the end she committed suicide. Because she really, she didn't realize like how average men I'm talking guys, I'm ladies. I'm not talking about the suave guy who picked you up at the club. I'm talking about the plumber. Okay. I'm talking about gut. I'm talking about the construction worker who works all night.

And barely makes more than minimum wage. I'm talking about the dude who works at KFC. I'm not talking about the good looking guy who had sex with you on the first date and never call you back. I'm talking about the low end dude. I'm talking about the five foot five Filipino cashier that you wouldn't even look at twice.

I'm talking about him. She didn't understand how hard it was for the average man to just get along, to just have any, to get any recognition from women at all. And like, I wouldn't have 3000 clients in my program. If what I was saying wasn't true, these men were just totally being ignored. And they were being ignored by the Harris campaign, which is the reason why they got blown out by the Trump campaign is because they ignored men.

They decided, you know, who we need speaking at our campaigns, Megan, the stallion and fucking Cardi B and Gorilla Cardi B saying well, these are her words, not my words, broke boys. They don't deserve no pussy. I know that's right. Did she say that or not? Did she say that or not?

She's saying broke men don't even deserve sex. She said that, and you're sitting there, you're like, Oh no, it's men who are the problem. Ladies, I'm sorry. It's just like these unrealistic, irrational beliefs that you have towards men. If you can't get them under control, we're going to end up with a negative birth rate in this country.

And that's, we're already headed in that direction. It's just, I'm not calling you delusion. I'm not trying to call you names. I, we know why these things are happening. They're happening because of functions and evolution and hypergamy. I understand that. But like, at some point you have to grasp reality and say, Hey.

You know what? It really is shitty. Like, here's the way to fix it. If you guys have a brother, or the, you said before, like, about talking about that they had a son, the other one is, if you have a brother, or if you have a son what advice would you give your brother or son? Then you see women starting to say so, for instance, it's like, Hey, ladies, so you have a high body count.

Do you think men should date you? Women are gonna be like my body count doesn't matter. My body count is my decision. She, he shouldn't know anything about that. And then you say, okay, you have a son. Your son comes to you and tells you that he wants to go off and marry. He's 22. He wants to marry a female stripper that he met.

And this girl does porn on the side and fucks other dudes. Do you think she should marry him? And all of a sudden. Click like her brain mechanisms change. And she's like, Oh no, that's my offspring. He's like, Oh no, she's not good enough for him. It was like, wait, but you're good enough for some other guy, but this girl isn't good enough for your son.

When you met, when you express it like that, but then all of a sudden she comes to the realization. Oh, it's probably not a good idea for her. To date him, but for him to date her. And so, I mean, that's where we get, you know, the conflict and the delusion, I'm not saying look, women have it hard in certain arenas.

They absolutely do walking around by yourself at night, men are going to cost you, they can assault you. All this kind of stuff happens. Like you have to be in fear. When you go on a date with a guy you don't know, he's bigger and stronger than you. I'm not saying that women don't have certain things that are hard.

What I am telling you that right now in 2024, there's a massive group of men, at least a third of men, that are being totally left behind in the dating market, totally left behind. And what they're being told is that they need to wait until these women get through running through Chad and Tyrone in their twenties and just have all these dudes fuck 'em and leave them.

And then when these women turn 30, then they're ready to settle down with this beta male who's just been sitting there waiting for 10 years for his wife. And no, the problem with that is those marriages and in divorce, I would not wait for those things as a man. You should not be waiting. You should be leveling up and you should not accept anything other than her best.

If a woman was down to do something with Drake,, and she's not down to do it with me. I was incredible video of this one guy talking to future and said, what do you think about the fact that Sierra is making Russell Wilson wait before they have sex. He goes, did she make you wait?

And he goes, never goes, he goes, God, she said, God told her to make Russell wait and future goes, God didn't tell me that he goes, that's not what God told me. He goes, no, we had sex. And then we prayed about it afterwards. We prayed. I was like, it's so clear that Sierra had one set of rules for future and a different set of rules for Russell Wilson.

And my whole thing is gentlemen, I'm not going to accept a double standard, whatever she would be willing to do for machine gun Kelly or Drake or whoever she's going to be willing to do that for me, or there's no deal. That's the way I look at it.

[01:26:32] LW: have to like grow up and learn these things, however, they learn them. Women also have to grow up and learn that their history actually does matter when it comes to

[01:26:41] MS: you're down to have some, a threesome with some guy you met at Coachella, but you're not down to have a threesome with your boyfriend. Sorry, honey. Not if I'm a man, I do not accept that.

[01:26:48] LW: So, Yeah. 

I want to talk more about this, but there's a couple more pieces from your back story that I still want to go over. One being your dad getting killed in 2006 and how that impacted you. And the other being, you said the greatest dating book you ever read, which I found completely surprising by Eckhart Tolle.

I didn't know Eckhart Tolle wrote, I didn't know he wrote dating books. 

[01:27:09] MS: No, Eckhart Tolle did not write the best dating book, but he wrote the book that made me probably helped me the most at becoming a more attractive version of myself. Eckhart Tolle, for those of you don't know, like if you ever read the subtle art of not giving a fuck, Eckhart Tolle is basically writing the same book.

It's called the power of now, but the power of now is more like. Whereas, um, so I'm not giving a fuck is not woo at all. Basically the concept of like being a gratitude in present moment awareness, it made me a more attractive person because I was able to stay in the present moment while I was talking to other people.

The thing about my father, that's where I got into self help was because my dad, so my dad dies in may of 06, right after my dad dies I get deployed to the military six weeks after my dad dies. Well, yeah, I had to go back and testify in the case against the woman who ran him over the drunk driver, and then I got sent to the Middle East right afterwards.

When I'm in the Middle East, two things happen. The Dallas Mavericks go up 2 0 on the Miami Heat and end up losing four in a row and losing the championship. And I'm watching this happen, like, Like live after my dad died for some of you, it's not that big of a deal, but for me, I'm a Mavericks. My first love in the world is the Dallas Mavericks.

And then my girlfriend starts running off with some other dude. She, to be technical, she wasn't officially my girlfriend, but I was nuts about her. And we were sleeping together and then I leave to go to the Middle East. And while I'm there, she just stops writing me. And then I check on MySpace and I see her with this, with some Marine.

That she's dating now and she doesn't tell me fuck all about it and it was just like my girl left me. My dad died. I'm stuck here in the Middle East. There's no girls around and I started going through like in like a super high levels of cortisol. I remember I started having breakouts. I started having like allergic reactions on my scalp.

I developed a seriotic arthritis during this time period. I come back and I'm just dealing with so much stress. And this one guy recommends for me to read the power of now by Eckhart Tolle changed my life. Absolutely changed my life. Once I had this reality that no one really cared that much about me, like it wasn't that big of a deal. Like I don't have to keep this facade up to try to impress other people. It was so incredible when you realize that. And then later on I made a video that got 33 million views. Where I basically stated, like, you guys live in a country where a man fucked a porn star while his wife was pregnant, we elected a president of the United States.

You live in a country where a woman transitioned to become a man, runs over someone and kills them, and then Caitlyn Jenner is named Woman of the Year four months later. You live in a country where they make a movie about a dude who commits securities fraud, does a bunch of cocaine, has sex with a bunch of prostitutes.

He punches his wife in the stomach, kidnaps his own kid and make a movie about him called the wolf of wall street. You guys love the shit out of this dude. You live in a country where Colonel Oliver North sells, he sells munitions and ammo to another country going like. Subverting federal law, he's disgraced for it.

And now he's a contributor on Fox news. You live in a country where OJ Simpson gets offered to do like deals for fantasy football podcast. After stabbing people, 56 times you live in, like, I just went down the list of like all these examples. You've only been a coach, like after Adam 22. And Sneeko and Aiden Ross, when people saw their girlfriends having sex with other dudes with Aiden Ross and Sneeko, their girlfriends were cheating on them, they became more popular after people find out their girlfriends are cheating on them, they became more popular and you're sitting there worried like you think people care about you, no one cares about you, like when you think about the thing with the Paul brothers, like defrauding all those people with that crypto coin that the whole pump and dump and then afterwards you know, Jake Paul getting his house raided by the FBI.

Well, he's done after that, right? No, he made 40 million fighting Mike Tyson. You guys watched it. You guys all watched it on Netflix. You looked at Mike Tyson's bare ass on Netflix. And the point I'm trying to make is nobody pays for shit. Nobody. There's no consequences for your actions, no matter what you post, no matter how controversial you are.

There's no consequences for it whatsoever. Like, Andrew Tate gets canceled on every social media platform and makes more money and becomes even more popular. Like, I'm sorry, I'm done. Like, President Trump loses his Twitter account after the whole thing that happened on January 6th.

And now he's more popular and gets reelected. I don't know what you guys expect. Like, you guys keep thinking like you're going to screw up and then you're going to have to pay for it because your parents give a shit about what you did or like you did something that pissed off someone at work. No. I have never said more crazy shit in my life.

I've never had more people angry at me and I've never got more job offers in my entire life than I do right now. I get job offers like once a week for people to come work on their social media or whatever that people pay me to come out and speak at different events. Again, I'm saying more bombastic shit and making more people angry at me than ever at any point in my life.

And I get more job offers than ever at any point in my life. I'm sorry, guys. I'm sorry to be the one to break this to you, but the reality of the situation is the more attention you get in general, like if you or I wanted to get in front of a venture capitalist, let's just say you and I studied venture capital in college, let's say you and I went to Berkeley and we wanted to get in front of venture capitalists, who could get in front of a venture capitalist faster, you and me or Jake Paul.

[01:31:43] LW: Or Haak Tua.

[01:31:44] MS: Or hot to a girl who could get in front of a venture capitalist faster, hot to a girl or us.

[01:31:49] LW: Tua.

[01:31:50] MS: Okay. Why this woman sit there and described how she gives a blow job and she is more famous, makes more money. And like, she's sitting there talking about getting a blow job. And I promise you, she's, I didn't, she take a picture with president Trump the other day.

It's like. Well, you guys need to understand no one pays for shit anymore. You know, what could never happen? Like never is a guy get convicted of 33 felonies and then get elected to become president of the United States. That could never happen, right? Because he would, because the world is fair. There's no way a guy could be convicted of 33 felonies and then be elected president of the United States, except that's exactly what happened.

In fact, I'll tell you when the Southern district of New York indicted him on those 33 felonies, all they did was make Trump more popular. All they did was make it more popular. So you get indicted and convicted on 33 felonies and you're more popular and you guys are sitting there watching here And you're afraid to post a meme on social media because you're afraid of what your co workers are going to think No one pays for shit.

And that is what I learned in the subtle art of not giving a fuck That's what I learned in the power of now like seriously No, the world is not about me. It was neil strauss who told me this the world is not about me The world, it has bears, the world has no responsibility to make me happy. The world has no responsibility to conform to my ego.

It's going to do whatever it does. And I need to accept things exactly the way they are exactly the way they are. 

[01:33:04] LW: The point is not to try to be audacious. The point is just to be yourself. Just be a hundred percent yourself and speak your truth

[01:33:12] MS: see, I'm not even speaking my truth. I'm speaking the truth. I like all everything I brought up to you. None of it's subjective. Like he did get elected president, right? What I said before about women having cheating in a relationship have 237 percent more sexual partners. These are objective truths.

Like I'm the reason why I get more so much hate is because I'm hard to argue with because I back up everything I'm saying with data and they, people get so. angry with this whenever I do this, because they, it gives them so much of a smaller spot to attack and they think that I'm not making this personal.

So I don't know why other people have to make the attack so personal. So

[01:33:43] LW: who primarily is getting angry with you.

[01:33:46] MS: It's either blue bill content creators or the big one or other dating coaches, the ones that like, they spend all day just trashing my stuff. Cause I tell men and tell them that men and women can be friends and that social circle is better than doing like direct game called approach.

A So It's not

[01:34:00] LW: feminine. yeah, there's a few, there's a few who hurt you bro feminists, but the problem is I do get a few of them that say that, but mostly the worst of all light are the guys who like, They want to try to impress women by posting these like super white night, blue pilled really cucky comments and they'll write some nonsense on there.

[01:34:19] MS: It's like men enjoy more sexual variety than women do. That's just truth is the average man enjoys the same amount of sexual variety as the top 1 percent of women. It's, there's been multiple studies on it's easily replicatable. I'll say something like that. And you'll have some like blue pill fucking weirdo in the comments being like, I only enjoy sex with my lawfully married wife.

Why would you ever want sexual variety when you could have monogamous sex with your wife? And that's all any man should want. If you don't want that, you're a fucking loser. And like, Oh, we'll see comments like that. Like I'll get those comments all the time. Like, bro, like the girls in the comments are not going to fuck you.

Like, I don't know why, I don't know who you're performing for, but it's not working. And that, so we'll get that. I'll get that one a whole lot. Yeah. That kind of stuff. I mean, I'll get a bunch of hate from that, but the main ones are like black pill or guys or incels who are really angry about the fact that I'm able to take like short Indian men and get them laid.

They really hate that because they've been believing their whole life that the world is only about looks and money. And I disprove that. And so my very existence is problematic to them. Guys who do direct the game, they have a huge problem with the stuff I teach because I teach guys how to like show massive levels of attractive qualities without showing intent to women.

They hate that because the belief is from the pickup communities. I go to a woman, I let her, and it's like, man, it's a woman. Blow me or blow me out. I'm attractive. You need to be with me. Cause I'm an alpha male. I'm like, dude, that's a, you're looking like a super try hard weirdo. When you act like that.

And they hate that. They hate that. I disprove their. Their beliefs. So those are mostly most of the hate I get. It's not as many women. I think a lot of women, if they listen to me in a long form, they have a hard time disagreeing with a lot of stuff that I'm saying. You see the studies that show where women who are politically progressive, who are liberal, they tend to want to be with more conservative men because conservative men.

Take care of the bill. They open the door. They go to the gym. They have a deeper voice. They lead in a relationship. They act in a more chivalrous manner. Whereas the blue pill liberal guys that they're with are like physically weak. Don't pick up the check. There's a very different where women are themselves politically progressive or even feminist, but they enjoy having sex and dating men who are conservative.

So I think that's another example of it.

[01:36:16] LW: Yeah. I mean, when I ran the a RC episode a lot of the informal polling that I did, a lot of women really actually loved just the honesty of his approach. And so that, that was really interesting to see,

[01:36:28] MS: Yeah. But the disconnect is this in their mind when they hear ARC saying, I'm attracted to you, I would like to have sexual intercourse with you. Like five minutes after they meet them in the woman's mind, it's Brad Pitt who's saying that to her. you understand?

Like, like, that's the reason the women were agreeing with ARC because in their mind, it's Taye Diggs and The Rock coming up and saying, I want sex with you. And the women feel flattered by attractive men being direct. If when it's put into practice and average looking men go hyper direct with women, it doesn't work 99 percent of the time, but the women can't conceive of an unattractive man going direct like that.

Does that make sense? When it's the Indian guy going, I want to see Bob's in Virginia when that happens, they don't see that's what ARC is talking about. They don't see it as attractive because they forget that part. They can only envision hyper attractive men coming up and being direct. That's why they agree with what ARC is saying.

[01:37:19] LW: So from an evolutionary psychology point of view. It seems pretty clear. Okay, men, you can work out, you can become better, a better leader. You can take more self accountability, et cetera, et cetera. I think we all get that. What can women do who are not the, you know, at the top 1 percent physically attraction? What can they do? 

[01:37:38] MS: This is a little bit if you want, if you think that this is bigoted or misogynistic, then blame Charles Darwin. Don't blame me. Women a lot of times, women know this, you go through puberty and you get a ton of attention from men.

You have value and you didn't work to get this value. Women. A lot of times the answer is preserve your value. Like don't have a digital footprint of you being alone in Dubai. Like don't cover the front of your body with tattoos. Like, don't you understand what I'm saying? Don't have a digital footprint of you dating one man after another or videos and photos of you getting drunk or high.

Like 

[01:38:10] LW: Brown paying him 1, 000 a 

[01:38:12] MS: Yes. Don't, don't 

Don't pay. Don't pay Chris Brown, 1, 200 for Chris Brown to grab your ass. Like preserve, preserve your. Value instead of men, we have to build our value. That's just the truth. I'm sorry. You can disagree with me as much as you want. And every society, 37 culture study done by Dr.

David Buss in 1989. And every society, as men grew, climbed the socioeconomic ladder, the difference in age between them and their wife increased. Meaning as men became higher and higher status, they started dating younger and younger women. So the answer is the point at which you are most likely to lock down the alpha male is in your.

Early to mid twenties. And a lot of women really don't like to hear that because the average age of first marriage in the United States is 30. And so this is the point where Orion terror band puts us the best on average. This is the point at which men waiting for sex actually is worth it. Like at 29, that's the point.

And that's when most, I'm sorry, most women get married at 29. Most women will try to get married at 29. This is the point at which the deal is good for high status men. It's like, okay, I'm going to wait for sex to be with this 29 year old woman. But the reality is like, that's the point at which she tries to cash out of the dating market.

And in reality, she could have had a better man had she chosen a little bit earlier. That's it. Or preserve, maybe not chosen a little earlier, but preserved her value. Like ladies, I'm sorry. No guy finds it like normal men do not find attractive tattoos on the front of your thighs. Some dude's name on your cheek, on your forehead, tattoos in between your boobs, excessive drug use vaping.

Men do not find that attractive because we're going to have a baby with you. Like, I'm not looking to have a baby with a woman who has hepatitis. Like I look, because she's got multiple tattoos. I'm sorry. I know that comes off as super judgmental, but like, you can keep telling me I'm wrong. And then you're going to keep wondering why you're having a hard time dating preserve your, like, I would tell women preserve your value.

Just like as a man, I don't tell men who are 22 years old to start taking steroids. If you're going to do TRT, wait until you're in your forties to do that. Preserve your natural ability, your body's natural ability to produce testosterone. So how do you do that? Get more sleep. Have a better diet, et cetera.

Your body's natural ability to produce testosterone. You can destroy it by taking an anabolic steroids. So as a woman, you can destroy your sexual market value by doing things early in life that are really bad mistakes, covering your body. The honors. So great industry to be in right now is tattoo removal.

I see so many women getting tattoos removed. Great. And guys, you want a super high markup industry where your cost of goods sold aren't very high because you have the sunken cost of just buying the laser tattoo. Removal is huge right now. Women are going out. They realize they've been sold a bill of goods by Cardi B and Megan, the stallion covering their bodies and ink that was unnecessary.

When men get tattoos, it looks like tribal alignment. When women get tattoos, it looks like bondage. It looks like slavery because that's historically why you would tattoo a woman because she was a concubine or a slave. And so I don't care how, like what the double standard I'm expressing is. I'm not telling you, I condone this.

I wish we were equal. We're not equal though. I'm not telling if I'm an oncologist and I come to you light and I say, Hey man, you have stage four pancreatic cancer. I don't applaud the cancer. Congratulations. You have stage four pancreatic cancer. Because I studied cancer does not mean I condone cancer.

And because I study evolutionary psychology does not mean I condone it. I wish the world were different. I wish women could be admired for their accomplishments in the workforce, the same way that men are, but they're not. I'm dealing with what is and not what ought, and in reality, women have way more leverage in the dating marketplace by preserving their value rather than getting a master's degree.

It's just the truth. And men have the men, it's the opposite. We don't have to preserve our value. And most societies, women do not care that men are virgins in most societies. Women do care about how much money a man makes. They do care about how much upper body muscle he has. They do care about these things, no matter what we want to say, no matter how different it is.

Men are judged for their upper body muscle. Women are not judged for their upper body muscle. It's just the truth. And because of that men are 100 percent stronger than women are in their upper body. And so when you realize these things, then when I give you the answer and it's not the answer you want to hear, don't blame me, blame Charles Darwin.

[01:42:02] LW: One of the most telling studies I read, I think it was in sex at dawn or influence they went to some college, they had a woman go up to a hundred guys and offer to have sex

[01:42:11] MS: Oh my God. Yeah. Okay. So this 

[01:42:13] LW: Do you know it? Mm-hmm 

[01:42:14] MS: of course they did the study in 1979 and 1982. You can't do the study again today. So people have been trying to replicate the study, but of course you can't do the study. And because it's so politically incorrect to try this. They took male models. And what they did with the male models and female models and they took them out on college campuses and they asked three questions, can I get your number?

Would you like to go on a date with me? And would you like to go back to my apartment and have sex with me? If women did this, it was like I believe men, it was 75 percent of men said when the woman said, would you like to go back and have sex with me? 75 percent of men said that they would go back and have sex with a woman. 

For women, when men said, will you go back to my place and have sex with me? Zero. 0 percent of women said yes. So when

[01:42:53] LW: Wait. And the other 25% of men said, I can't do it tonight, but

[01:42:57] MS: Hey, I 

can't do it tonight. Yeah. Because my, or my my my girlfriend's coming around 

[01:43:01] LW: tonight. 

Yeah. 

[01:43:02] MS: like, like, like, what's it called? Consequence free sex was a ubiquitously men accepted it and women did not want anything to do with it. And it was so funny because you saw this data and it's so incontrovertible.

It's so, and. No one denies it. But feminists later on said, no, you can't replicate this. This isn't true. Women want sex just as much as men. And it's just like, it was this flex that women had where it's like, no women, like men, the average man wants as much sex with his, a variety of partners as the top 1 percent of women.

So guys, I want you to think about like an escort. A fucking a girl who does pornography or a girl who's like in this lifestyle, she's a swinger and she's a nymphomaniac and she loves a ton of sexual partners. She still does not have as many sexual partners. It's like the average male stripper, like the average male stripper who has a ton of sexual partners is going to have more partners than her, the nymphomaniac woman, when men in the Castro were surveyed.

So this is a great example, men who live in the Castro. This is part of San Francisco. This is the gay district of San Francisco. Homosexual men when they were in the Castro and so female selectivity did not exist there because it was men having sex with other men would frequently have 200 sexual partners a year. wildest porn star, you know, female does not have 200 sexual partners in a year. Men's desire for sexual variety. Women can't even come close to it, but feminists hear this and they're like, no, I want to fuck a lot of people too. And I'm like, why? Like, this isn't a pissing contest. Why do you need to want as much sexual variety as men?

It was funny. It was actually Alex date psych who talked about this. It's like, why? Or no, it was William Costello who talked about this. Women get pissed when they hear that men wants more sexual variety than women. Like it's like, it's a flex. It's actually a detriment.

Honestly, if men didn't want so much sexual variety, we'd probably get more work done, you know, but men's desire for sexual variety in the first place built society. So it's like a trade off.

[01:44:45] LW: And it's also just not attractive if you're a man and you hear a woman, even just talking with her girlfriends about this kind of thing and bragging about how many guys you slept with, it doesn't make you more attracted. 

To it's funny. It's funny. Like, by the way, if you want to talk about how many sexual partners you have, I got a spot for you on my show. I come on back to Vegas anytime you want. I love girls like that. Come on my show, but you're right. It's not, it doesn't make me more attractive. So the other thing we can talk about is what's called mate choice copying.

[01:45:08] MS: So make choice copying is this idea that when you see someone of the opposite sex and other people desire that person, you desire them more. When it's tested with women find men who are photographed with other women to be more attractive. It's pretty ubiquitous.

It's very replicatable. Several studies on this is called make choice copying in humans men. However, it doesn't seem to have the same effect. Men. Seeing women pictured with other men does not make them more attractive. Here's another one. Here's another study. That's kind of crazy Dr. Bust as a study on Self esteem. 

Self esteem in men makes men more attractive self esteem and women has no bearing on their attractiveness Men do not find women with higher self esteem to be more attractive now You can say that's misogynistic and I probably agree with you It probably is women however who have higher self esteem want partners who are more physically attractive So if a woman has higher self esteem, her desire for an attractive partner increases, but her attractiveness does not increase.

When men are, have higher self esteem, they're, they are more attractive to the opposite sex, women or not.

[01:46:02] LW: What about in terms of dating, other dating myths you talk about people thinking they deserve this or that and what, how that actually works in terms of dynamics. And then I also want to talk about birth control and how that affects attraction.

[01:46:14] MS: What they deserve so yeah, you don't deserve shit. Like that's a real bad, like one of the problems that's happened. Yeah, but honestly, Disney and like these fairy tales, like that's why I'm so offended by soulmate myth. There's no soulmate because what soulmate implies is that you deserve something.

None of you deserve shit through the sheer luck that you were born in the United States. And there's a constitution that States that you have been given by your creator, the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, because you are fortunate enough to be born in this time period, in this place, then you get.

You get this thing called human rights. If you were born in Western Africa back in the 17th century, you were sold a slave and no one gave a fuck about you. just lucky that you happen to be born during this time. You don't deserve shit. You're just lucky you were born in the United States or in Australia, Britain, Canada, or some Westernized liberal democracy.

You're just lucky. You happen to be born in this place at this time. That's the only reason you guys don't deserve anything. It just happens to be. At the benevolence of men who came before you to fight for your freedom. That's the only reason you have any of these freedoms in the first place. And so people believe that they deserve stuff, which is why I just don't like the soulmate myth.

The soulmate myth makes you think you deserve shit. You only get shit because you work for it. Now, some people what's happened is. They're either trust fund kids, they were incredibly good looking or in the case of like with a lot of women, they're really attractive and because they're so attractive, they end up getting attraction for men and they start believing that they deserve a better and better man.

They start listening to like female rappers and watch rom coms that make them believe that their soulmate is coming for them. And it just screws up the dating market because people believe they deserve shit. And it's just, there's no, like, you guys understand Cinderella was a myth. Do you guys know Cinderella was a myth?

Or do you think that really happened? You really think that like the fairy godmother came down because Cinderella was getting hated on and this, and she deserved Prince charming. No, it's a story. It's a story to sell tickets to Disney movies. Do you guys understand that? 50 shades of gray was fake. Do you guys understand that billionaires with huge penises?

Don't just sleep with one woman like they do in that stupid fucking book series that ruined a bunch of women So many women actually believe that christian girl, dude when I so I read the first book. I survived the first book I tried to get through the second book. It was terrible. I didn't read the third book.

And I asked a friend of mine who read all three books. I'm like, does Christian Gray ever fuck any other women? And they're like, no. And I'm like, this is the dumbest book series I've ever heard of. It makes women actually believe that good looking billionaires that women chase after only sleep with one woman.

Like it's absurd. Like the book could have been like a better, like men and women could have read the book if it had been realistic. But it was like, it was one of the dumbest thing again. It's fiction. I'm not blaming the author. The author is just doing the best they can. What I'm saying is it's such a dangerous precedent to set that women now believe, well, I'm going to get my Christian gray.

He's my soulmate. I deserve him. I'm going to get my billionaire with a huge penis. And I'm going to, he's going to marry me. He's going to be with me and reject all these other women for me. Like. It's stupidity, bro. Like what you're ruining women and their viewpoints on the world by having them read this nonsense.

And so it's 50 shades of gray is equally as detrimental for women as pornography is for men. That's a better way to say it.

[01:49:15] LW: Yeah, look, I think we have to let people have agency as well in terms of understanding the deception. listened to the interview with you and Dr. Butts and he was saying if you can perceive, you can be deceived. So there's a lot of deception that happens out there through story, through social media primarily, because we're looking at comparisons.

[01:49:36] MS: yeah, again, what did we say about an hour ago? We said. Stop looking at people's words and only pay attention to their actions. We have six rules of an MLA rule. Number one is we don't listen to the words. We only pay attention to people's actions. And the problem with that is if someone's duplicitous, whether they know it or not, you expose them.

And a lot of people are offended by that. They don't like being exposed. Again, if you just paid attention to what certain politicians did and not what they said, you're going to see who they are as a person. And that's bad for those politicians. It's very bad. And when you hear a woman keep saying, I only date nice guys, and I never sleep with guys on the first date.

When you pay attention to what they actually do women, guys, if a girl goes on a date with you and she expresses to you repeatedly that she will not have sex on the first date. Why is she saying that? Is she saying that because she won't have sex on the first date? She's saying that because she did.

There's only people only complain about things that affect them. Just remember that people only complain about things that affect them. What she's saying is that she isn't going to sleep with you on the first date. That's what she's telling you. She's not saying that she's never slept with anyone the first day.

And so guys will hear this and they just listen to the words. You've got to stop listening to the words and you only pay attention to people's actions. You do that. You get a much clearer picture on the world. And would you say that if you can perceive, you can be deceived. Men throughout history have figured out ways to lie to women in order to get short term sexual access.

And women have figured out ways to counteract that line. And women have also figured out ways to deceive men into thinking those men to thinking that they were going to get short term sexual access in exchange for resources. And men have figured out way to ways to counter that.

[01:51:00] LW: So we're basically just baboons with makeup and Lamborghinis.

[01:51:03] MS: Yeah. So it's a hairless murder apes. Yeah. Hairless murder apes. More closer to chim chimpanzees than baboons, but yeah, very close.

[01:51:10] LW: did you get introduced to the red pill community and the thought the Dan Bilzerians

and the Rolo team and 

[01:51:15] MS: So, so Dan and I just happen to be friends. We live a couple blocks from each other. We just happen to be friends. Dan and I, Dan used to live in this building. I live in now. The thing with Dan has nothing to do with any of this. The other part was what happened was I started making my podcast.

I started making videos about evolutionary psychology and, but I have the receipts to back it up that I have a lot of successful women. So when I did that, a lot of people in that red pill space started to notice me and then they wanted to come on my show. And the thing is. Rollo really does. He's a big fan of evolutionary psychology.

And when he would listen to my stuff, he would see what clearly this guy's read more than anyone else in this space. Obviously not more than William Costello, not more than Mack and Murphy, not more than Dr. Buss, not more than Alex datesite but as far as the regular content creators, I had done more studying than any of them.

So he wanted to do a show with me. We do one podcast. It's four hours long. And then we started access Vegas together. And then from there, then I started getting requests from a bunch of people in the red pill space for me to come on and that a lot of them were surprised because they'll talk to me.

And they expected me to be some sort of like pro military white ring, brutish troglodyte, who just like screaming, go America and fuck everyone who doesn't like Trump. And of course I'm not like that. I'm like barely a fan of Donald Trump. Like moderately, most of my friends are female. I would definitely vote for a female politician if she agreed with what I agreed with.

And I think sexual assault is drastically underreported. I think women are being sexually assaulted at a rate that like one in every seven sexual assaults gets reported. I work with a domestic abuse charity and I rescue animals. People are shocked when they find the shit out about me. And then they're and then, so in the red pill space, I still get, because I get so many requests to do interviews with them, then everyone just thinks that I'm a red pill troglodyte.

And I just, Follow and lockstep with everything that people in that space say, but of course I don't

Women. There you go. There's one like guys in Red Bull space think that women cheat more than men. That's not true. Men cheat more than one.

[01:52:59] LW: did you sit down one day and decide, okay, I'm going to read more books than anybody else in this space. And I'm going to make myself the premier expert and then people are going to be attracted to wanting me on your show and was that a strategy or were you just really passionate about this thing and you wanted to learn as of, 

[01:53:17] MS: Sort of. So I'm an autodidact, meaning I don't have a degree in some of these things, but I read everything there is. So every book that comes out on evolutionary psychology, there's an audio book on audible. I immediately put it at the top of my queue and I read it generally like they kind of end up saying the same things, but I've watched every.

Interview Dr. Bus has ever done. I watch everything William Costello does. Like when it comes from the source, actual evolutionary psychologists, I try to read it. And so I try to be, I think I'm more informed on that subject, the 99 percent of the population, but I'm not more informed than like, say the guys who were in that space.

They're definitely more informed. I would say I'm about as informed as Chris Williamson is who also does a lot of study on evolutionary psychology. He's an autodidact when it comes to that. So, that's kind of where I learned that that whole space from what was that? And then.

As far as what I wanted to do was outstudy other people before I did interviews and have more questions that were relevant to them than anyone else that had ever interviewed them. And so that's something that I was able to do. But I wanted to be, because I listen to audio books at triple speed, I'm able to get through like a lot of content very quickly and then I'll take notes on it.

And then I listened to a podcast at double speed and then I'm able to get through those pretty quickly. And so I try to do a lot of research before I interview people.

[01:54:21] LW: Is there a book in the works.

[01:54:22] MS: Depends. I mean, they're trying to find me a ghostwriter. I'm not going to write a book. I mean, if somebody wants to write it, I can sit down on my couch and just tell him stuff, then I'll do it, but I'm not, I don't have time for that, but I don't have time to do anything. I got to get off here right now and I got to go start.

I got 15 problem fires. I got to put out. What's a day? What's a day in the life like?

Get up around 10 30 trade stock options. Usually first meeting is usually at one. I'll have one on ones or meetings from one to four. Then I usually do a group call on Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays. Sometimes on Wednesdays, I'll do a podcast at four o'clock.

And then at six, once that's over, then it's usually gym time. It's usually my second workout. I'll do one workout first. I'll go outside and just walk around for like 45 minutes. I'll do a second workout. I'll try to get through a gallon of water every day. And then dinner, usually around midnight.

And then I'm in bed by like three or four in the morning

[01:55:08] LW: Wow. Beautiful, man. Well, look, I definitely want to have you on again. This is a lot to digest and and maybe we'll do an in person thing one day when I come out to Vegas or do you shoot in L. A. As well or just Vegas mostly.

[01:55:21] MS: No, I just shoot Vegas.

[01:55:22] LW: Okay. Yeah. So we'll definitely do that. If someone's listening to this and they're intrigued and they want to know more, you've done like, you have a massive YouTube channel.

Do you recommend, is there a video that we can link in the show notes? That's like the best introduction into your world.

[01:55:39] MS: Huh? I like those Osmo videos. I think those are pretty good. Probably some of the Osmo videos that I do on gratitude probably would be really good. It's hard, man. I don't know what the best one would be. There's just so many things. Well, I'd probably go through my shorts. I'd probably just go through my shorts.

[01:55:53] LW: Beautiful, man. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks again for making time and coming on and being so generous in your share. And I look forward to more.

[01:56:01] MS: All right, man. Good to meet you. Light.

[01:56:03] LW: Absolutely.

[END]