266: How to Heal Old Wounds and Build a Life You Truly Love with Alexi Panos

In this compelling episode of The Light Watkins Show, Light sits down with transformational leader Alexi Panos, who candidly opens up about her personal evolution and the life lessons she’s gained through immense challenges. From growing up in a traditional Greek family to stepping into a fierce independence inspired by her mother, Alexi shares how her upbringing shaped her views on success, relationships, and feminine power.

Alexi and her husband, Preston Smiles, are well-known for their work in personal growth and relationship coaching, but Alexi reveals the unseen struggles they faced in their marriage. She explains how hitting rock bottom together led to a complete reinvention of their partnership, teaching her profound truths about self-betrayal, feminine embodiment, and authentic love.

In this conversation, Alexi delves into her early years in the entertainment industry, including surviving a traumatic experience that shaped her resilience and independence. She also discusses the pivotal moments that led her to embrace somatic coaching, which helped her uncover the power of reconnecting with her body as a source of wisdom.

Whether you're navigating personal growth, seeking deeper connections, or curious about balancing ambition with inner peace, Alexi’s story offers invaluable insights. This episode is a must-listen for anyone ready to move beyond surface-level success and step into a more embodied, fulfilled life.

Transcript

 AP “My mom at the time was my manager and so she calls me and she's like, hey, I met this producer, and he knows exactly who you are and blah, blah, blah. He wants to meet you. I'm like, mom, I told you I'm done. Not interested. She's like one more time. Like, let's just see. Maybe if you do it your own way and you're not under this idea of who you need to be. Because they were trying to very much mold me into this version of who they wanted me to be, that would be successful. I'm just like, ah, I don't know. I was like, all right, I'll take a meeting. So the guy calls me, and he's like, hey, I'm going to pick you up. We'll do a studio test. Like average stuff. I've done it a thousand times with other producers. Okay, cool. No problem. He picks me up. I get in the car. We start talking. Instantaneously, my body's like, whoa. And I had never felt that before. Intuition was just like lighting up and I'm like the person that, I've been taught to be in entertainment is like be agreeable. Don't be hard. Don't be crazy. Don't be difficult. So it's like, it's fine. It's fine. Okay. Breathe. It's fine. He keeps talking. We're driving. It comes up again. It's fine. It's fine. Like it's fine. Be agreeable. Be agreeable. All of a sudden, we're driving through the Midtown Tunnel. We end up in Newark, New Jersey. I am very clear that I have no idea where we're at right now very clear. We're driving into a really bad neighborhood and I'm like, okay now all my survival stuff is coming on like, okay what do I do? How do I survive this? Do I jump out of the car? Am I doing this? I'm starting to look for all these things and before I know it there's literally a gun on my lap. He's like, this is gonna go one of two ways...”

[INTRODUCTION]

As you may remember, last week I was in conversation with Preston Smiles. And so to complete the story, I'm thrilled to announce that today's guest is Preston's partner in crime, Alexi Panos. Alexi is a transformational leader and co creator of The Bridge Experience with Preston. She went from acting and modeling in New York City to teaching people how to break free from anxiety and perfectionism through her signature somatic coaching practice.

And what makes this conversation fascinating is that while Alexi And Preston were teaching others about personal growth. Their own marriage was silently unraveling. And in our conversation, we explore how hitting rock bottom in her relationship became the catalyst for her deepest teachings about feminine power and why even relationship experts sometimes need to completely reinvent their approach to love and partnership.

[00:02:26] LW: Alexi Panos. Thank you so much for coming on to the show.

[00:02:29] AP: So good to be here. So good to see your face. We go way back and I feel like I haven't seen you in person in a while. We tried in Mexico City, but didn't quite happen.

[00:02:38] LW: So we published Preston's episode last week and I thought it'd be really cool to have you on. Obviously you all are divine. You're a divine couple or whatever, spiritual language we want to put around.

[00:02:50] AP: A couple who has problems just like every other couple and we call it divine and sacred because that's what it is.

[00:02:57] LW: I've got this guy from the red pill community that's going to be coming on soon. And I like to, I love just interviewing people with a lot of different perspectives. Most of my audience is female. So fully expecting people to get triggered by some of the stuff that he has to say and, but I feel like your perspective is going to be a great sort of anchor for the feminine perspective of whatever the red pill people, are you, have you like looked at some of these videos from the red

[00:03:25] AP: I am very 

[00:03:26] LW: the Andrew Tate's and the 

[00:03:28] AP: Yeah, I'm not a, I'm not a fan of some of the people who have come out of that world because I believe they go to the extreme, but I think the documentary was well done because it tried to very objectively show that there's another story that we may not be as aware of.

[00:03:43] LW: Yeah. And a lot of guys that don't feel seen with, everything that's been happening. And I think the election, the outcome of the 2024 election also was surprising to a lot of people. Because they ended up settling on this theme of masculinity and your masculinity is actually compromised. And so there's this sort of, battle between the boss, babe, independent, we don't need no man.

And then the other side, which is masculinity is the basis of civilization and you wouldn't have anything that you enjoy now, if it wasn't for all of that. So anyway I would love to just get your thoughts on that later in the conversation. I like to start off. In the beginning though, so we can even appreciate where you've come from, what your experiences have been and how you've developed your perspective over the years and decades.

So let's start off talking about the earliest days of you growing up in your big Greek family. And just give us a little montage of what was going on back in those days. Was it, is it Pennsylvania that you're

[00:04:48] AP: Yeah, Erie, Pennsylvania, and very small town,

[00:04:51] LW: little town,

[00:04:52] AP: tiny little town, a steel town by the lake, by Lake Erie. So beautiful in the summer, crazy tons of snow in the winter but grew up in a very traditional Greek family on my dad's side. So I had, if you've seen my big fat Greek wedding, it's in a way, it's like that, a more kind of modern version of that, but we had our restaurants and all the kids worked in the restaurants and I was raised essentially as a secondary mother from my grandmother, my yaya.

And she Typical Greek woman, didn't work, took care of the family, didn't even drive, had to be driven everywhere from her husband, my Papu. Just so loving, so nurturing and So self serving in that way, in the terms of like, I, my, my greatest gift is to serve the family and that serves me now, my mom was almost like the antithesis of that.

So my mom was like this German, Swedish American born, but very modern woman. If you think of independent boss, babe, entrepreneur, like Maven, my mom's picture would be in the dictionary next to that. So I had this woman who did not fit in with my Greek family and so much so that her, my dad got divorced very early, but I had two very different frames of what it means to be feminine.

The Greek frame, you're subservient, you take care of everyone. That's your greatest gift. That's your greatest joy. It's all about the family. It's all about your man. It's all about everyone else. My mom. It's not about the man. Screw the man. It's about becoming your best self. It's about living your dreams.

It's about actualizing that. And I saw her do that. I saw her, move to New York City and open a modeling agency and do all these things that were important. basically against what she should have been able to do at that time as a single mom. So it was just really interesting because, I looked up to her in so many ways, but the exterior of my Greek family judged her. Oh, she's not a great mom. She's doing all this stuff. Like she's got babysitters with you. Like why is she working? And so I had the slight judgment of that, but also like, wow, she's. Live in our best life, and then I also

[00:07:02] LW: Did this come to light later for you personally, or did you realize that as a child up, that your mom was the black sheep of the family because of this?

[00:07:11] AP: think I knew as a child because of the conversations we had over the, like the family conversations in the Greek family. I knew she was definitely not accepted. I knew she was other, but I took after her quite a bit. I also took after my father. My father is, serial entrepreneur, brilliant, and I have two parents like that. So it's like, how could I not become that? So I took after that and very quickly at a young age, I entered the entertainment industry. I went into the music industry. I was modeling. I was traveling the world basically my teenage year. So I was following more of my mom's footpath of entertainment, leaving the small town, finding bigger pastures to create and live your dream from.

And so I actually left Erie and moved in with my mom when I was 15. And that really started to shape, like, this is how we do life. And I saw my mom very independent, very she would be in relationship, but she never needed them. And so that level of like, Sovereignty is the way I saw it, but now I know sovereignty to be different.

I'll call it autonomy. Her level of independence and autonomy was really inspiring. Cause it's like, no matter what happened in her relationship, if she got hurt, She was good. She'd be fine. So, okay. This is what women do. We take care of ourselves, we make our own money, we forge our own path, and if they come in, great, but we don't need a partner.

We don't need a man. God forbid. That's like the worst thing ever to need a man. And so I think most of my twenties, even into my thirties, that was my, my, my motto internally. And of course it was a bit unconscious, but it was something that I. War proudly, and I think nowadays we have this whole, the boss, babe era of the independent woman.

Like I don't need anybody. I'm not dependent on anybody. And we wear that proudly because of what our mothers and grandmothers endured in the past where they did rely. And need and were financially, sometimes imprisoned and kept and couldn't leave bad situations because they couldn't take care of themselves.

So that is a dichotomy for sure.

[00:09:24] LW: Yeah. And there are a couple of things you, you wrote or you, I heard you mentioned on a podcast about those earlier years. And I wanted to ask you about them. You said that you never knew a relaxed woman when you were growing up. So what did you mean by, by that?

[00:09:40] AP: So, okay. Going back to the Greek women in my family, there was always this anxiety of like, what do I need to do around the house? Who do I need to take care of? What food do I need to make? What do I need to clean up? There was always something to do. Or someone to take care of my mom and all the independent women that entered my life.

When I entered that path, it was always more to do, always more to achieve, always more to create never enough money, never enough success, never satisfaction. Like there was always more. And it was almost like this promise in our head of, well, once I get there, once I get the big enough business, once I get this big contract, once X, Y, and Z, then I'll finally feel.

happy, safe, then I'll settle, then I'll take a break, but there never came. And so it was always this constant push to produce more, to earn more, to gain more, because essentially what I know now is that we are looking for safety in all of these external metrics. If I have more money, more recognition a bigger business, more followers, whatever it is, that's more safety, but safety is never external.

It can't be, it has to be an internal game. And so when we can't relax in here, we go, I need to do more out here in order to feel safe. And that shows up two different ways for the good traditional woman. It's I need to be more of a good woman. I need to be more of a good wife. I need to be more of a good.

Mother or a good caretaker for the independent woman is I need to be more successful, but both those women and everything in between, what we're really looking for is I need to be enough. And that is a completely different game to play, no matter if you're more traditional or want to be the more successful type.

So I think as women, we're starting to wake up to this reality of I don't feel enoughness in the traditional role. I don't feel enoughness in the independent woman role. I can't keep playing the same game, expecting different results. So what's really going on here is I have to feel enough here. How do I do that?

Where do I start?

[00:11:47] LW: Right. And back in those developmental years, Having, watched your mom do her thing and your dad do his thing and they're both entrepreneurs. What was your understanding of money or your relationship with money? Because obviously you had your chil, your childhood needs. I want to go get a toy, or I want to do this or that.

Did your parents ever like say you have to earn it or did they just give it to you? Did you think money grew on trees or do you think it had to be like earned and like how did they talk to you about that

[00:12:16] AP: Yeah, for me, and it's funny at the time, I thought it was like child abuse, but now I love that they did it. They made me earn every single penny of it. Literally, my dad's like, if you don't like what's in our house for food and you want something else at lunch, earn your lunch money. I'd be like, what?

This is crazy. Other kids get two bucks for lunch. Why can't I? He's like, if you don't like the food we have, earn your own. And yeah, I love that. I got that because I know without a shadow of a doubt, I will always be good. I'll always be able to make money because that's how I was trained to go. Okay. If I want something, it's a value exchange.

How do I create value? And what I'm learning is, cause that's also a part of my wound, right? It's like, okay, it's all on me. It's all on me. Like no one's got my back, even though they had my back with like basic needs, of course. Anything above and beyond that, they're like, you got it. You're good. And so I'm doing like now as a mom of four, like I'm doing a blend.

Of both, because it's funny because Preston grew up, my husband grew up slightly differently where he always knew he'd be good. He always got all the things he wanted. I'm like, wow, like you got all that stuff for Christmas and, just completely different view and lens of the world. And we see how that shows up in our adult lives and like expectations and all the things.

And so for our kids we're trying to weave in the beauty of, they always know that they're good and we've got them and. We can have conversations about that and how fun is it to create value for the world and get the exchange of that to be able to do what you want in life. So it's the best of both.

[00:13:56] LW: What were some of the ways that they inspired you to earn your money? 

[00:14:00] AP: Well, we had to work at the restaurant. So early on like eight, nine, 10, we'd stand at the front with our ya ya and we'd go to our table. Help her be the hostess. So we'd walk people to their table at brunch. And then once we got old enough I can't remember if I was like, I think it was like 10, 11, 12. I was toast girl in the back on brunch.

I butter all the toasts and toast all the toasts and get all the orders ready. We had to do

[00:14:22] LW: Were these ceremonial positions or did they really need you to butter that toast or you got, they're going to get some

complaints. 

[00:14:28] AP: I took it so seriously. I remember I took so much pride in like rye toast and like, and they would have like lots of butter, a little bit of butter. I would literally like take so much pride in my toast sorting skills that it was like, it was such a beautiful thing to feel that because it wasn't, Oh, I'm just doing this to make money.

It was like, I'm doing this to actually like make someone's breakfast better. And that's really how I've done every job. I've been a waitress, I've bartended. you know, I've done all sorts of things, right. And including really cool jobs and jobs that, are hustling jobs. And every single job I've had I've taken that level of pride of like, this isn't just a job.

This is an invitation to make somebody's life better for the moment. Like, how can I. Show up in my best and make this fun. And that's been really cool.

[00:15:21] LW: Well, what specifically about the restaurant business, even as a kid, right. Or just watching your family run this business. Did you learn. That ended up translating into some of the things that you're doing today, right? When it comes to again, like the user experience or the importance of bringing people together, anything like that come to mind.

[00:15:43] AP: Yeah. It's such a great question. I think everyone should work in the service industry at least once in their life. Everybody should be required. I want my kids to do it. Because it's humbling, like it's really humbling to be in that position. And to also know that you have a lot of power to not just be somebody's in between for a meal, but like to have a conversation, to connect with them, to really understand them.

And, I saw my grandfather, my Papu, he used to walk around from table to table and like, really talk to each of the guests. And he had his regulars and he'd know about them and he'd ask about their kids and like, Oh, how was the soccer game last weekend? And there was just a level of connection.

That it wasn't about the money. It was truly about like, these are people and these people are looking for an experience. How can I show up and give them a beautiful experience with their meal? And I think I have translated that into everything I do. Maybe unconsciously, I don't even think I've thought about that until now in this question, but Yeah, even with bartending, like I remember I'd be bartending at like some of the coolest nightclubs in New York City and I'd be wanting to get into deep conversations with people like during the slow times, like at the beginning of the night and at the end of the night, I'd actually like really be curious about people and watch their behavior. And it's what actually got me into coaching because I recognized, wow, I was really good at listening to people and hearing them from a different angle that maybe somebody in their life wasn't hearing them from. And so it's just really interesting.

[00:17:18] LW: I waited tables in New York City in the nineties. And I attribute that experience with my first introduction to sales, right? Like, not even consciously, but I noticed that whenever there was a special, if you just said, yeah, the specialist crabs and rice and, you know,

[00:17:36] AP: People are like, yes.

[00:17:39] LW: said Alaskan snow crabs and two day marinated rice and, you just fluffed it up a little bit. All of a sudden, those same people be like, yes, that's what I 

[00:17:49] AP: that sounds amazing. So true.

[00:17:51] LW: was like, wow, just describing it more actually leads to greater

[00:17:55] AP: Yeah. Yeah. And also what that brings up too, is like your energy is I'm just doing this thing. I'm reading it off. Here's my specials list, right? Like, Oh yeah. Like the crab and the rice versus like being with it. Like, Oh, I've seen it come out. It looks amazing. I haven't had it yet. Like look at Alaskan king crab legs. It's like you're with the experience and with the energy, or you're just Doing what you're supposed to do and in all of life that will change your experience in everything. And it's so simple.

[00:18:24] LW: And also not recommending something. If someone's like, yeah, yeah. I wonder really what the spaghetti you go, ah, the spaghetti is not that great tonight. And all of a sudden they trust anything else you say, Because you were courageous enough to not, steer them towards something that was potentially really expensive, but it was going to be a great experience for them. So um, so yeah, I think all of those come into play when it comes to sales. 

You said that, or you wrote that when you were 11, you recognize that you thought differently. That's a very specific age. Do you remember what happened when you were 11 that caused you

[00:18:57] AP: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I grew up again at my mom. So my mom first started a modeling agency in Erie, Pennsylvania. So.

[00:19:05] LW: Yeah, which is not the

[00:19:06] AP: normal, 

[00:19:06] LW: Of fashion in the world.

[00:19:09] AP: not normal. It's not normal to be in like a steel

[00:19:13] LW: What was the department store in Erie like a Belk or 

[00:19:16] AP: just like, wow. And you know, what's crazy is she made it successful. She went into the tri state area to pick Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Buffalo. She went up to Canada and then she had New York and then all of like, The Southeast Southern of New York, but the Eastern coast from New York to Maryland. She had all those department stores.

She had all those local businesses and she's, she was known for real people. And her whole thing was real people. So I grew up in my mom's agency as well as working at the restaurant. I was stapling resumes to headshots. I was folding informational bureaus for her modeling camp. I was at her modeling camp for kids and like helping co lead that stuff.

So at a young age, I was. in a world that was not normal and I was starting, almost as young as like two was my first like modeling job. Now at 11, I start going to New York city in the summers. I start flying to Miami in the summers to work, to model. And I remember, it's funny, Preston and I were just talking about this.

I remember I was doing this on like the low, right? Cause in Erie, it's weird to do anything that's abnormal. And I got a big job doing some departments, or I can't remember which it was Dillard's, I think, and. I had like a swim, I was doing like their summer swim guide and I was in their summer swim guide and those like newspaper pamphlets that would come out and somebody saw it and it was like the biggest deal ever.

And I got bullied at school, I got made fun of, they had it plastered on my locker, who do you think you are? Like it was a whole experience and I was like. I do not fit in here. These are not my people. They do not understand my life. I don't quite understand their life. I felt like I almost had to keep this part of me very quiet because I was also like reading books about philosophy and Taoism and like asking questions about religion and why do I have a friend who's Jewish and a friend that's Christian and they both say that theirs is the truth and like asking these bigger questions that people just weren't asking.

And thankfully I had two parents that were black sheep in their family that were like, ask the questions, dig, like find your own answers. And we're not going to tell you that any one way is the right way. Like figure it out for yourself. And so I became endlessly curious about religion and philosophy and life.

And why do some people. Say, like, this is enough and they never think bigger than this. Why do some people always think bigger and want to keep going and keep moving and keep exploring people just were so interesting to me. And I think because I grew up in a more I don't want to say homogenous because it wasn't, but in many ways, it was a homogenous culture.

Like there was a way that you did things, you went to high school, you got good grades, you married your high school sweetheart, you had three kids by the time you're 24. And, you work at Erie insurance. And like, there was very much a protocol to what you did in Erie. And it just didn't fit for me.

And I knew that early in that moment when everyone found out my secrets. Of having this secret life of being, a model It was like oh god Okay, I need to figure something else out. And I think that's when As a trauma I started to disassociate from school and school just became okay.

I have to do this to get through it how do I get through it fast? I ended up graduating early I left Eerie at 15, moved in to South Jersey with my mom at 15. And really just started to go, okay, I'm going to do life differently. And I started working with a massive producer at the time and started, I was basically in school one day a week for chemistry class and, graduated with flying colors and was building a music career, 90 percent of my days and at 15, that's a very abnormal thing to do, but for me, it's like, I'm I can't go the normal route.

Like this is not for me. I know that I knew there was something more. I just couldn't quite put my finger on what it was at the time. I had done Tony Robbins. I did unleash the power within when I was, or I read unleash the power within when I was 13 and then went to his first his first workshop. I think it's maybe, I don't know, unlimited.

What's his first workshop. The big one he does.

[00:23:31] LW: I don't remember, but just be I'm going to talk about that. But just before we get I have one more question about those developmental years. Okay. Obviously, your parents split up, but and my parents ended up splitting up when I was in my 20s. Actually early 30s. Now that I think about it, but what was your understanding of relationships like when you watched your parents?

Because I remember thinking these people don't really seem like they're in love, like they go through the motions and everything, but it's not, that's not the kind of, marriage. Think I would be inspired by, I said this to myself as like a 10, 11, 12 year old. And maybe that's why I'm in the situation I'm in right now.

I'm, it's really hard for me to imagine because I associate marriage with what I saw when I was growing up. And and since you and Preston have been re imagining this and redefining this, and we're going to get to all that later, but what was your understanding of relationships like when you were a kid?

[00:24:24] AP: It's interesting. Cause I don't remember my parents together. They split when I was probably three and a half. So I have no memory of them. However, the memories I have of them together, like for dropping us off and doing the co parenting thing, it was volatile. It was, my mom talking about my dad to us, my dad talking about my mom to us.

And we were very much in the middle of like these two people. Hate each other and we all know it. Everyone in the family knows it. It is so obvious. Everyone knows this My dad got remarried to a woman who was my stepmom for a long time They're no longer married and they work together. My dad and my mom worked together and My mom and her partners, because my mom married a few times as well, they never worked together, but the primary relationship I saw was my dad and my step mom, they work together in multiple businesses and it was always about work, like, what's going on at work?

What's going on with the inventory? What's going on with this employee? And it was Always work conversations. And so I never saw love. I never saw romance with a married couple. My mom had romantic, like people she would date for a while. And my mom loved romance and loved getting swept off her feet. So I saw it, but I saw that it didn't last.

I saw that it was like these like bursts that are really fun and really amazing and this whirlwind of love and romance, but it's going to die off. And when it dies off, time to move on, find another. And so I have a very clear understanding that when I was young, I said, I don't think I ever want to get married because it didn't look fun.

It just didn't look like, I'm like, from what I see, A, it doesn't work. Both of my parents have been married and divorced. My dad has finally found his person. My mom has finally found her person, but, in her later in life, my dad, his fifties, my mom and her sixties. And I think for me, it's, I just always felt so self sufficient of like, I love my life.

I don't need a man to be happy. I don't need kids to be happy. I love what I do. Who needs that? That feels like a burden. That feels like it's heavy and gonna bring me down and so I very much went through life with that mindset However, in my 20s, I realized very quickly like I actually loved being in relationship.

Like I love depth. I love partnership I don't like to date. I'm very much like hey, I have very limited time So if I'm gonna spend it with someone like I want to go deep And I don't want to waste time dating. Like that feels like the biggest waste of time for me. So I would be in these like long term four or five year relationships pretty much back to back in my twenties until I met Preston. And then when I met Preston, there was just a different energy of like, I can marry this guy. Like he was the first guy that I felt it pertained to spirituality Living in service and like giving his gift as a way to contribute to the world, we were equals. And I remember meeting him going, Oh my gosh, I've never met a guy that's into all the same stuff.

I am like, I thought I was a weirdo, like all the other guys I dated would be so inspired by me. And I love how you live your life and I love what you study. And then I remember talking to Preston and like, we read all the same books and like heavy books, like, the science of mind, I'm like, you've read that book.

And I go to his house and I flip through just to see, and I'm like, Oh, he has read it. It's highlighted. There's notes in here. Okay. Okay. Yeah. He wasn't just

[00:27:56] LW: You can't trust anything guys say. You have to always like verify.

[00:28:00] AP: Well, some people are like,

[00:28:02] LW: Is there anyone out there who would consider you to be their husband? Is there anyone who would be upset with you sitting here right now with me? You have to ask all these different questions to find out what the truth actually

[00:28:13] AP: seriously, I'm telling you, because so many people would be like, Oh yeah, I've read that book. Or, Oh yeah. And then you find out they just bought the book, but never read it. Or, it's like, I want to take the course, but I never took it. And I'm such a like serious investigative student that if you're a student like I am I was like, oh, yes All right, we can play like we can do life together.

This will be fun.

[00:28:36] LW: I know this is annoying, but I like to have more of a linear unfolding of the story. So I'm going to go back to the, that first Tony event, cause I think that's interesting, right? Like what 15 year old is sitting around reading, awaken the giant

within. And so you said your dad studied Eastern philosophy.

Did he, is he the one that recommended the book or was that just a series of readings that you had been doing since. Your dad maybe started giving you the children's version of the Dow or, talk a little bit about how you were introduced to the spiritual work. And you mentioned your first Tony event was 16.

That means you've done multiple events like this and you did landmarks. So just, yeah, just give us an idea of how that conscious personal development journey unfolded for you.

[00:29:20] AP: Yeah, again, I think it really started Unconsciously, my mom was always into psychology and she would my parents lived eight hour eight hours apart So when we would do joint custody, we'd have these eight hour car drives And, we would just listen to books on tape and my mom would put on Merriam Williamson and Wayne Dyer and Robbins and my mom had like the big cassette things that like, pulled apart that were plastic with all the cassettes lined in them and we were just popping

[00:29:48] LW: like 12 cassettes for one book.

[00:29:50] AP: Exactly. And we would just pop in another tape. And I remember at one point I'd be like, Oh, can we just listen to Janet Jackson or Madonna mom? Like, can we please like something? But I would listen. Absolutely. And there were parts of me that judged it, but parts of me that are like, Oh, this is interesting.

So that's early on. That's like seven, eight, nine. Then at 10, nine, 10, I S I had a friend, one of my best friends was Christian and I would sleep over at her house. And she would invite me to CCD and like, the Sunday school and I would sit there and I would listen to what they were teaching. And my dad was atheist.

My Papu was atheist. And I would just listen to this, like, interesting. How come my dad and Papu are so. Against this like this is not the truth, but they think it's the truth And then I had a friend who was jewish and their truth is slightly different and I just started again getting curious about religion And that's where my dad said I love it You're asking questions like seek answers and he said you may want to start with some eastern stuff And my dad was into martial arts So he started me on like buddhism and the dao and I really love that now fast forward to the I remember getting asked to read Beowulf in eighth grade.

I don't know if you remember that book. And I was like, why?

[00:31:05] LW: tell Beowulf scarlet letter. It was like old English for a kid in Alabama. I'm like, well, what are we doing?

[00:31:13] AP: I literally asked,

[00:31:14] LW: I thought I hated reading, but actually it was just that BS that I was not

[00:31:18] AP: I literally said to my teacher, I do not understand why we're reading this. This doesn't make sense to me. And I told my dad, I hate reading. I hate reading. And he's like, you don't hate reading. You just hate what they're forcing you to read. And I was like, okay. So then I started going to the library and going, well, what would I like to read?

And then I start going, well, my mom's books on tapes. So my mom has all these books at her library at home. I'm going to look at her books. And then I started doing my own. I found Rich Dad, Poor Dad early on. I just found like some really good stuff. And I was like, this is so interesting. Real estate investing.

Tony Robbins, like Tony Robbins was a whole world with NLP and just the whole thing. Like I went into that rabbit hole and I went into like spirituality and ghosts and I went into all sorts of things. I'm like, Reading is the best thing ever. I can explore all these worlds with so much curiosity and there's endless information.

And then when I started modeling, I started meeting older models, like where I'd be like housed with them or like on a job with them. And we'd talk and they'd see I'd have these books with me. And they're like, wow, you're reading this book at 11, 12. And you would really love to go to his seminar. And I was like, Oh, would I be allowed to go?

And they're like, yeah, I think so. And then I asked my mom, she's like, yeah, I'll drop you off. So my mom drops me off and I'm at, Tony's big event and some big stadium by myself and jumping up and down with adults next to me on both sides. And it was awesome. I was like, Oh, this is cool. This is interesting.

And then I met someone there who introduced me to landmark. And I went to landmark at 18 and did the whole landmark curriculum, basically 18 to 21. And then came back when I moved to LA, just to get back into a community. Yeah. Of like finding some landmark people and it just, it continued to just, how it is you meet a person here, you have a conversation, they hand you a book.

Oh, you should listen to this. And okay. And I'm just like, yes, I'm so hungry for it. Like, you got to understand. I know you understand. Cause you're from Alabama, right? Like people did not talk about this stuff. And so I was. So hungry for it. And it was like, I was thirsty for it. And someone was like, here's water, here's orange juice.

And I'm like, yes. So I was just a yes to anything and everything that felt like personal growth. Again, I was going to real estate conferences in like weird hotels at, 18 years old and learning about all sorts of real estate investment. Even though I didn't buy my first place till I was 25, I was thinking about it.

I was swimming in it.

[00:33:41] LW: Right. And also, you were modeling, right? So obviously. You were physically attractive and you're around all these guys. And I know that you had an experience with sexual assault, and maybe that was the first time that you realized that you have to, on top of being excited about life and all of these different philosophies and whatnot, you also have to protect yourself.

So can you just share a little bit about that experience and what were some of the learnings and how that sort of informed the rest of your path moving forward?

[00:34:10] AP: Yeah. Well, it's interesting. So I got a music deal, a development deal when I was 15 with a pretty big producer at the time that led to basically getting signed with a massive label at the time from 17 to 21, traveling on the road, performing, recording, learning how to songwrite all the things.

[00:34:30] LW: Was there a lot of money in that deal or did you, was it like a thing where you get money later potentially maybe possibly

[00:34:36] AP: Yeah, there was a little bit of a signing bonus. And then I made money for a couple songs that I performed on that I like sang the hook and it was on a platinum album. So I got paid for that, but it was like chump change, 5, It wasn't that much. I was spending way more than I was making trying to make it look like I was making money.

So lesson learned the hard way. But it's funny because. We had just gotten off a world tour. We went all over Europe. We went over South Africa. We went to Australia We went all over the world Japan and while I was quote unquote living this dream of that You would think every kid would be like, oh my god.

Yes. This is amazing What I quickly found is I was in a very predatory environment and I was really good at like keeping it at bay Like playing the good girl and not pissing off anyone too much, but also like keeping it at bay. And there was a point where I just got so exhausted from doing that. Like, I remember we were in the tour bus in South Africa and I was journaling and I remember seeing like the disparity between like wealth and people who were You know, living in these shanty towns and I'm like, what am I doing?

Like, this doesn't feel like me. I just remember having just such a clear moment, like a moment of inspiration where it's like, this is not your life. And I flash forward, like if I keep doing this and I was like, they were featuring me in King magazine and all these like big, like, industry magazines of like this new artist coming out and they were basically ramping up PR for my album to come out.

And I was like, it's now or never. Like I'm either. All the way in or I'm out and I didn't know how to deal with conflict at the time. So I just like out, went out. I came back after that trip in South Africa and disappeared, changed my phone number. I was like, I don't know how to handle this. I'm just going to disappear.

And it was because of this stack of number one, this never felt authentically mine. Like this wasn't my dream. I happened into it by entering a singing contest on a dare. And was just like, cool. I'm along for the ride. Let's go. But secondarily, I felt again, I was in this predatory environment again and again.

So I pull myself out of the industry. I get a bartending job. I get a waitressing job in New York just to support my brand new apartment. I just got and all these things. And my mom at the time was my manager as well. And so she calls me and she's like, Hey, I met this producer and, He knows exactly who you are and blah, blah, blah.

He wants to meet you. I'm like, mom, I told you I'm done. Like not interested. She's like one more time. Like, let's just see. Maybe if you do it your own way and you're not under this idea of who you need to be. Cause they were trying to very much mold me into this person. version of who they wanted me to be, that would be successful.

She's like, what if you did it your own way? I'm just like, ah, I don't know. I was like, all right, I'll take a meeting. So the guy calls me, I'm literally moving. I remember I'm moving my boxes into my apartment on 33rd and 3rd, like moving myself into my apartment. And he's like, Hey, I'm going to pick you up.

We'll do a studio test. Like average stuff. I've done it a thousand times with other producers. Okay, cool. No problem. This time. Yep. I just got to be back for work. I was working at the coffee shop in union square. Got to be back to work at four. So he's like, yeah, we can get you back in time. No problem.

Great. He picks me up. I get in the car. We start talking instantaneously. My body's like, Whoa. And I had never felt that before. Intuition was just like lighting up and I'm like the person that, I've been taught to be in entertainment is like be agreeable. Don't be hard. Don't be crazy.

Don't be difficult. So it's like, it's fine. It's fine. Okay. Breathe. It's fine. He's keep, he keeps talking. We're driving. Comes up again. It's fine. It's fine. Like it's fine. Be agreeable. Be agreeable all of a sudden We're driving through the Midtown Tunnel. We end up in Newark, New Jersey I am very clear that I have no idea where we're at right now very clear We're driving into a really bad neighborhood and I'm like, okay now all my survival stuff is coming on like, okay What do I do?

How do I survive this? I jump out of the car. Am I doing this? I'm starting to look for all these things and before I know it there's literally a gun on my lap He's like this is gonna go one of two ways And I'm just like literally froze. Exiting my body, froze. I have glimpses and memories from some healing I've done.

But basically what happened was I was assaulted and taken advantage of. I was raped at gunpoint and afterwards he literally threw money at me and was like, find your way back. And I had to take the money that he threw at me. I think it was like 44 cause I didn't have anything with me. He's like, yeah, don't bring anything. Just bring, your phone and whatever. So I take the money to find a cab, a black cab, cause that's what would drive around the city. I weigh the cab down. I'm sitting in the back of the car. And I'm just in shock. Like, okay, I have to go to work. Okay. I've got to be to work in 45 minutes. I got to get home.

I had a shower. I got to get to work. And the efficient, good girl. That's always on time. That doesn't like to let people down. I made it to work on time. And everyone said, Hey, how'd that meeting go with that producer? Yeah, everything was great. And I just went on with my life as if it never happened. And I buried it back in my subconscious, literally from 20, I think I wasn't 21 yet. I was 20 years old until 26. And I literally was like, so guarded from 20 to 26. It was like, you couldn't get to my heart. I was so productive. I was so successful. I was making so much money because I had to channel that energy somewhere, but I didn't want to deal with it. I didn't want to actually feel what had happened.

I didn't want to feel the intensity of The guilt I felt for putting myself in that situation and a long story short, when I eventually started talking about it to an ex partner, he was like, well, let's, let's look them up. Like, the Internet was like, starting to get a little more sophisticated.

So we look up the name he gave us. He wasn't the person he said he was. So he had, we think he may have been stalking me or finding me. Somehow he found my mom. He told me in the situation, I know where your mom lives. I know where you live now, like don't try and be a hero. And I was like, okay. So I remember going through the motions of it and thinking like, this is how I'm protecting myself and my mom. And it's like such a crazy situation to be in because it's so traumatizing. And yet it's like, I felt like there was nothing else to do. But what's interesting about the money piece that I uncovered years later is because he threw that money and I needed that money to get back into the city. Somehow I told myself unconsciously, I will never take money from a man or need money from a man ever again in my life. Ever. 

And I've never been that person, but now I definitely will not be that person. And I didn't realize that until Preston and I were dating and I was on the road and something happened with my computer, my laptop. He's like, Oh, I'll just he's like, go to where, wherever the closest Apple store is. I'll call in and get you a laptop. And I was like, No, absolutely not. And he was like, it's no big deal. He's like, let me do this for you. I would love to do this for you. And I literally started breaking down crying. I felt so much shame. I was like, why do I feel this way? And it all clicked for me. And it was in that moment that I was like, Oh, I got it.

And I told Preston and he was like, wow, like, thank you for letting me do this for you. I get how big this is. I still have an issue getting help financially from anyone or getting, or even having someone buy something for me. It's still a thing, but it's a trigger I'm learning how to be with and work through and go, okay, I can accept this.

I can accept this. This doesn't mean anything about me. I can accept this, but it's something that still comes up.

[00:42:33] LW: I'm so glad you brought this up and talked about it in such great detail. Obviously we're seeing a lot of situations, these days where women come out years later and, men especially go, why did you wait so long? Oh, it must not have really happened. And, but you've been on the other side of the psychology behind the trauma and the shock of it all. I don't think a lot of guys can even relate to being victimized in that way and how that can affect you.

[00:42:58] AP: It's wild. And like, I understand, like, I remember when the me too movement came out, I was like, where's the music industry, like, where is the music industry on this? And now it's starting to come out with everything with puff and all that stuff. Like to me, the music industry was one of the most predatory environments ever.

And I so get why so many people stayed quiet. Number one, because it was something that was so normalized number two, these powerful men were very protected and very safeguarded in terms of everybody knew what was happening, but nobody talked about it. And number three, when you have these positions of power, and these younger women who are wanting to get into these roles, they feel at a loss.

And so there's just so, it's so complex. And again, when it happens, you never know until it happens to you. But it is for so many women that I've worked with. And for myself, there's just such an overwhelming feeling of freeze that you're like, shit, I thought I would. You fight harder, fight back, but you freeze.

And when you freeze, there's shame that comes along with that. There's all sorts of stuff. You blame yourself. You think about everything leading up to that. Well, why would I do that? Why would I do that? And then you don't want to talk about it because it's so shame inducing, not just the act itself, but the fact that you didn't catch it sooner and do something about it.

So it is, it's very complex. 

[00:44:22] LW: So while this is all playing out you're also, you said you're making a lot of money. You bought a house, you're making a name for yourself. So you never have to rely on anyone else. And then I know there's so much that happens in a lifetime. So obviously we can't get to all of it.

But at some point you started hiring mentors and joining communities because you recognize that you can't see your own blind spots. Yeah. And you can't intellectualize your way into growth. It has to be something that, that gets pulled out of you and maybe even called out. And maybe you get called forth in certain ways.

So how did you know what was going on around you? You did mention that you saw you were hanging out with people with all the money in the world and they were miserable. Is that, was that the impetus for you not wanting to be in that situation and deciding, okay, I need help. I want to enlist the help of people who may be fulfilled in ways that I'm not to help me get there.

So just talk a little bit about that moment, that inflection point for

[00:45:22] AP: Yeah. Well, again, I was always into the work. So I was always reading. I was always taking courses. I was always like trying to find more information, but it was very intellectual for me for a long time. And it wasn't until 26 when I'd started a nonprofit after I left the music industry with one of my best friends.

[00:45:40] LW: Right.

[00:45:40] AP: were going overseas to Tanzania and doing clean water work and sustainable development and working with women and kids. And it's amazing. We still do it. So, since 2005 going strong. But I remember at the time at 26, we had just installed a well in this community. And this woman Zomda was like talking to us in her native tongue, which is a dialect of Swahili.

And she's holding our hands and tears are in her eyes. And. Intellectually, I'm like, Oh, she's so grateful for this. I'm like, Oh, isn't this awesome. Like I felt proud of what we were able to do, but then I looked at my partner who is, very emotional and very connected with her heart. And I started judging her cause she was like crying with her.

And I was like, Oh, There's T getting all emotional about this, like we don't have to get emotional about it. And I found myself judging her and like rolling my eyes secretly underneath it. I remember journaling after that trip and going like, why am I judging her for like such a beautiful moment?

And it was because I couldn't feel that. Like intellectually, I understood it. Oh, she's grateful. I'm grateful. Oh, she's so thankful. I'm proud. I understood it, but I couldn't feel it. And so that was the beginning of like the uncracking and unraveling. And that's when I got to the trauma and actually like, Oh, this happened.

Remember that? And started looking at all of that. So that started first with working with a specific women's group that dealt with sexual trauma. And it was like a circle of women that we would get together and talk about what happened, and I realized how shut down I was. And so that was the first time where I felt like it was okay to not have the answer.

Where it was okay to like, Be a beginner and I was such a like brand new baby in this world of feeling that it felt so awkward. It's like, oh, I'm learning how to walk. I actually don't know how to feel. I don't know how to feel responsibly. I don't know how to name emotions. Like, there was just this whole world, even though I'd done all of it.

All this work and personal development, it was about developing the person, the persona, the identity, the bolstering my success and my ego and becoming really successful.

[00:47:44] LW: And it's very masculine, the rah, rah, the Tony Robbins events and stuff. There's no like,

[00:47:48] AP: It was awesome. And I lacked an entirely different skill set that I had to go and find. And that's when I started to get like, Oh, wow, there's a lot here that I'm actually not. Aware of it myself and that women's group opened up so much for me and actually is the thing that got me into wanting to coach and so at 27 and why you offered like a certification life coaching program and that's when I signed up for that was like, I'm going to learn how to do this. I'm going to learn to actually work with people and.

I did. And at that point, life coaching wasn't even a thing. It was like your coach, are you at like a volleyball coach or a basketball coach? It's like, no, I'm a life coach. What is that? And really the only models I had were the Tony Robbins were these, Zig Ziglar and all these like really big Wayne Dyer, these big names.

And so I kept doing my thing in entertainment because it was paying the bills and paying them And at the same time, I was moonlighting as a coach and building a coaching practice. Like literally this is how far back it goes. The only place to advertise at the time was Craigslist. So I was advertising on Craigslist, 25 an hour for life coaching. And I had

[00:49:03] LW: and you were probably on the phone negotiating with people who couldn't pay the 25 an

[00:49:06] AP: Totally. And it was just like the most random thing, but that turned into somehow I was giving talks for Epic about, which was our nonprofit, like how to start a nonprofit, how to be a citizen that gives back in your community, whether it's global or your local neighborhood. And someone from an Epic talk was like, Hey.

I really loved your talk and your share. Can you talk at this business conference? And then that's when I started getting introduced into these different worlds and my talks, I realized, Ooh, I could start becoming more vulnerable in my talks, especially at business conferences where people aren't getting vulnerable.

And so I start sharing a bit of my story and my trauma that I went through and I'd have people come up to me afterwards and women and men sharing their stories with me about sexual assault. And I'm like, wow, okay, this is really powerful. Then yeah. YouTube came out and I started, I was hosting at the time, like doing television.

I was like, wow, I'm going to reprint my talent in hosting and production and just make cool videos about, living your best life and spirituality and these large concepts made simple and philosophy. And Preston and I were traveling around the world. So I was finding cool locations. I'm like, Oh, I found this waterfall.

We can hike two hours too. We could shoot a video there and we're shooting each other and passing the camera back and forth. And Posting it on Facebook and YouTube. And that's the impetus to what blew up our brand. As we know, it now was really started from like blending all of our loves of like travel and discovery and ideas and film and TV and pulling it all together and going, we're going to make a two minute video.

That's really entertaining, but it's also going to make you think and then make it awesome to watch. And people started sharing it and book deals came from that and all these other things. So. It's been a ride.

[00:50:51] LW: Let's double click on your, And then we're talking about uh, Meeting with Preston because he told the story of he's on a date and,

[00:50:58] AP: Yeah.

[00:50:59] LW: And he's gets the feeling right away. This is not my person, I'll go to this theater or whatever it was anyway. And you were sitting there on a date with someone else or whatever.

So from your perspective, right? The months or years or however far back you want to start leading up to that moment. Cause I'm sure you were not lacking in choices in your life. And guys coming out of the woodwork wanting to be with you. I'm not sure what you, where you were in terms of.

Did you believe in a person or a soulmate or destiny or anything like that? For yourself as you were, going through all the different life experiences in terms of relationships and what was, what were you thinking when you first laid eyes on Preston? If anything because I know both of you, I've been to your wedding and all that stuff and to me you seem like a perfect match, but obviously there's some challenges, which we'll get to in a moment, but yeah, just talk about the introduction.

[00:51:51] AP: Well, I don't know if he mentioned this, but we were first introduced through a friend because I was in London and I'll backtrack a little. A year prior, I was living in New York, just bought my condo in New York. Just refurnished it, like, re, redid everything it's like, I am never leaving New York. New York's the best city in the world.

Who would ever leave here? I am here landed, right? Like, yes, then in a meditation, I get such a clear, crazy intuitive hit. Go to LA. And as a New Yorker, for any of you who know, New Yorkers have a thing against LA where we're like, LA? Really? Gross. But okay, I'll go. And so I go and I only had one friend out there at the time.

So I stay with my friend. She shows me around. I spend the weekend there. I was like, okay, like everything felt really good. Everything felt like a yes. I come back to my apartment in New York and everything is like, why are you here? Why are you in New York? You're not supposed to be here. Like everything that I used to love about New York was now bothering me.

And it was like, I couldn't turn it off. So I was like, you know what? I'm going to go spend a week in LA and let's just see. So I spent a week in LA and now it's clear I got to move. So I literally fly back to New York, pack up all my stuff, take it to LA, move in with a friend of mine, a male friend that I used to bartend with back in New York.

He's like my brother. And he's got a spare room. And so he's like, yeah, stay in my spare room until you find what neighborhood you want to land in. I'm like, great. So he's Italian. So he has Sunday dinners at his house every Sunday with all his friends, like Italian dinners. He cooks and it's so good. Right.

And so I meet one of his best friends who is very much like an awesome human and very interested in me and like, Hey, like I think we should date. And I just gotten out of a four year relationship. I was like, I think I need to be single. For one time in my young adult life, I'm going to be single for a year.

So him and I were just friends and all my friends are like, girl, you're crazy. This guy's amazing. Perfect on paper. What are you doing? Like guys like this do not exist in LA. Like. He's your guy. If you don't take him, I'm taking him. And I'm like, really? Like, am I crazy? But it's just my friend. Like really?

And so I had one of those conversations and I literally thought maybe I am crazy. Like maybe he is. Cause he is like ticking all the boxes. Like he's good looking, successful, a nice guy, comes from a good family, like good human, smart. Like

[00:54:15] LW: Is this that actor? We don't have to say his name, but is this that

[00:54:17] AP: Yeah. So like, he's very successful doing really well.

And just like, like, again, perfect on paper and we're friends, so like we know each other really well. So anyways, I was like, okay, you and I, let's try this thing. And he's like, for real? So yeah, but I was on a show at the time traveling for the show. He was on a show at the time working, so we never really hung out.

We were just started a phone relationship and he calls me and he's like, Hey, I've actually got a weekend off. I planned a boy's trip to London, but I want you to come because it's our first weekend we both have off together. Meanwhile, I just want to like stay at home and do laundry and read a book, right?

It's my first weekend off, but I get the clear hit, go to London. I get to London, he's supposed to meet me, but I get a text, Hey we shot, our shot went late, but my friends are picking you up at the airport. His one friend was the college roommate of Preston and I spent all day with this guy. Yeah. All day with this guy and this other friend and we had the best time and he's like, at the end of the day, he's like, man, you're like the female version of this dude I went to college with.

Like, I got to put you guys in a message cause it's blowing my mind. He's at P was doing the love mob.

[00:55:24] LW: This was the actor's friend who did this? What

[00:55:28] AP: I know it's a little,

[00:55:29] LW: thinking?

[00:55:30] AP: it's a little complicated, but he puts us in a Facebook message and was basically like, Hey, you two should work together. Like she's out, she's dating my friend. I met her in London, Preston thinks I live in London.

He looks me up. He sees I'm doing epic and all this stuff with coaching. And I see he's doing the love mob and it's like, okay, yeah, cool. I never get back to him because that's just very

[00:55:51] LW: You ghosted him.

[00:55:55] AP: still to this day. I'm not on my phone a lot. And. We end up, he ends up going on this blind date on a Friday night to the electric factory in Venice.

My friend, who you know, Felicia, calls me and she's like, Hey, I've got tickets tonight, Friday night. I had tickets Saturday night. She goes, can you switch with me? Cause I have a call back. And I'm like, Oh shit, I got to leave now. And I'm never late for anything. I'm 10 minutes early is on time. So I'm like, I got to leave now.

I'm going to be late. So anyway, I go with my friend, we get there, we're late. We show up late. The thing's oversold. We get there and they build a row in the front for us, sit us down. And like three seconds later. Preston and his blind date come in and sit right next to us. Now I didn't know, but Preston knew and Preston looks over and it's like, Oh my gosh, that's my wife.

That's why all this stuff happened. And for Mingy, I'm just like, Oh yeah, Vince's friend from London. Like, good to see you, in my mind, work, like we're working together, that's it. I'm single kind of dating my friend here, but he very much knows I don't want a commitment. Like I'm just focused on me building my life. After the show is over, Preston comes back to me and he's like, would you want to go out on this date? And we can like talk about work. It was just so awkward. I'm like, yeah, okay. Well, I'm traveling for the next week when I'm back, let's meet up. 

Now prior to this meetup, which again, I thought was for work. He thought it was a date. I had all these little signs of, like, these hearts, like, these crazy hearts that I took pictures of. Like, there was a heart in the bubbles of my black coffee that looked like this, a meeting prior to the meeting with Preston. After Preston and I met, which was like this three hour long walk on Larchmont, we're talking about everything, I'm like, I'm starting to realize in that moment, like, I've never met a guy like this.

I asked him his vision. He literally describes to a tee, like my vision, I'm like, and I've got a very, like, I'm one of those people. I'm a Virgo. I've got a very clear written out vision with like visuals to go with it. I'm like, and I open my computer and I show him my presentation I made for myself. I'm like, this is literally, you just described my life right here.

And we very quickly have this moment of synergy of like, oh, you're different. Like you're different, but again, I told myself I'm going to be single for a year. I was about 10 months into that and I'm dating this other guy who very much knows that like I'm open and I don't, I don't want commitment.

Him and I, Preston and I, we're just friends. So we're hanging out almost every day. Like, like we're going to Marian Williamson. We're going to Agape. We're going to like vegan cafes. We're going to libraries and bookstores. And we're just like watching documentaries. Like just stuff that I've never done with a dude before.

It's always been like me and my like nerdy spiritual friends. Right. But I'm doing it with a

[00:58:40] LW: He never made a move. He never indicated that he was romantically

[00:58:44] AP: Never. And Like, I could tell, right, like the energy was so strong and so palpable, but he, I was very clear about like, I'm not looking for anything at all. And I want to be friends. The only person I'm dating is this guy. But I'm not a full yes. Okay. And I told this guy like, Oh, I've met this guy friend.

He's awesome. We're into all the same stuff. We're hanging out. And he's like, okay. I was like, we're not doing anything. And he's like, it's cool. You're free here. We're not like, it's good. I was like, I'm just going to be honest about everything. Like, I was just like very much like, whatever, this is me. And so it became pretty clear to me.

Like probably about 15 days in of hanging out every day, but there was a one day in particular where this guy had a big premiere and it was like a big film that he had done. It was like a big premiere and I was supposed to like, go to the event with him as his date on the red carpet, which is, a pretty big deal because it's like publicity and press and all the things and press the night before is like, Hey, I'm doing the speech at this college. Meanwhile, it's like a community college, somewhere in Pasadena. And he's like, would you want to come? And I'm like, do you know, I actually really want to go.

And so I tell this guy, I'm like, Hey, I want to go to my friend's speech. It's his first speech. It's a big deal. And he was like, okay. I was like, I just want to support him. So I go. And I parked my car in LA, a mutual friend of Preston and mine drives us up there. We go to support Preston. He's speaking on stage.

There's like 10 people in the crowd and we're like cheering him on. And I'm watching him. I'm like, wow. Like this is what the other guy was missing is like the, it's that intangible thing of like his passion, his zest, his care, his willingness to go out on a ledge. Like there's 10 people in this audience.

He's in this big theater and he has given it everything. And I'm like, Yes. Like I just saw, I saw it like, yes. He just moved back in with his mom. Yes. He had no business. He was 

[01:00:45] LW: Or money, right? Like 40 or

[01:00:47] AP: and I broke. Right. But like on paper, yeah, he was teaching surfing. Like on paper did not make sense. Like anyone would be like, what are you doing?

Absolutely.

[01:00:56] LW: and the other guys like come to my premiere. This is I'm about to be huge.

[01:01:00] AP: Right. And I'm like Hmm, but I saw that he so believed in himself. It wasn't even belief. He knew what he was here to do. He knew without a shadow of a doubt, like, this is what I'm here for. I just don't know how yet. And I'm like, I am so good with the how, like my entire life I've built businesses.

I've, been successful. I've strategized. Like I can help with the how. And so very quickly after that moment, he gets off stage. And again, the energy is like thick, you could cut it with a knife. And he was like, Hey, can I drive you back to your car in LA? And it's like an hour drive. And we're talking, and all of a sudden he gets really quiet and he pulls up to my car back in LA.

And he's like, listen, I'm really clear on what this is. And it's clear that you're not. And so I'm taking my name out of the hat because this is too painful for me. Otherwise, and I was like, okay, and I just said, okay, and then I left, I got my car. And apparently he went with our other friend, Chris, and was like, I just let her go.

Like the woman of my dreams. Like I just, I just let her go. What am I doing? But that for me was so like, his certainty was so powerful and palpable that. I was like, okay, yeah. And I just knew I'm like, yes. And I think I was resisting it. Cause I knew what it was. And again the little girl on me, that's like, I'm never getting married.

I didn't want to say yes to it because I could feel it. Like I could feel our lifetime together. I could feel kids. I could feel all of it. And it felt like a lot, and it was really scary for me. And I think when he said that it hit me like the gravity of that choice. And also I knew I didn't want to lose it.

And so I,

[01:02:36] LW: The free trial was over. You had to either buy or you had to keep shopping.

[01:02:42] AP: that's right. Like I had to put my credit card down, like, all right, let's go. But I literally went back home and called up the guy I was dating at the time, called up, there were like a couple other peripheral people that were in the wings, like coming back, like old people. I used to date like, Hey, I miss us.

Like all like the peripheral people, they all come back right before you're about to lock it in. And so they were all there. I closed all those doors, called Preston was like, Hey, can I come over? And we have been together ever since. That night. It was wild.

[01:03:11] LW: Did the actor guy fight for you? Did he like, or was he too cool for school? Like, yeah, you're missing out and 

[01:03:16] AP: It was interesting what happened. It was so interesting because we tried to like meet up to talk about it and it was like of course divine and fate and we're in his car at the time parked trying to talk about it like on the side of a street in LA and This girl comes up to his car and was like, Hey, like she says his name.

And then you could tell there was like something going on. It was like, like you could tell there was some unfinished business there where I was literally like, okay, well, it's clear. You've got some stuff that needs to be sorted.

[01:03:50] LW: there you

[01:03:50] AP: I've got some stuff that's come up. So like. Best we just leave it here and he was what?

No, that wasn't a thing. And I'm like, it's all good. Like, I think I copped out a little bit on that, but I took it and I ran with that opportunity. Cause I was like, okay, well, there it is. 

[01:04:08] LW: All right. So, Preston openly credits you with helping him to go from 40 and living at his mom's house to creating. You know what he's known for now. So again, we talked to Preston, we got his whole take on things. What did you see in Preston as someone who had already built something, right?

What did you see that he was, what were his blind spots and what did you suggest that he could do more of or better that ended up helping him get momentum when it comes to manifesting abundance?

[01:04:43] AP: Honestly, like he had all the internal game was there. His was external. So it was like systems, strategy, a website charging a website, charging people. Like he had so many clients that were like free clients. And I'm like, babe, and they would call it like one o'clock in the morning. I'm like, no.

No, like we just got to reorganize this. And like, again, for me, I had built a successful nonprofit organization. I built a production company. I'd built merchandise business. Like I had all these little things that I had done where I was really savvy with technology. I was really savvy with cameras and editing and all that, where I was like, we're going to edit our own videos.

We're going to travel. We're going to make this really cool. I had done location scouting. I knew how to produce, I knew how to edit. I'm like, we're going to do this. And became all about like just. Getting it front facing out and then having a backend system to be able to capture the attention that we have and turn it into something.

So we launched a program together. I remember this, we launched the bridge method, which was an online digital course on Easter weekend, which is like, you're not supposed to do it on the holiday weekend, but we launched on Easter weekend. I was traveling back home to Erie and we get off the plane and we check our PayPal account and within two hours of launching it, we made 90, And it was like We like looked and that was like the most him and I had ever made off of our own stuff that like was like

[01:06:09] LW: In two hours, especially.

[01:06:11] AP: two hours.

And like, it wasn't like a job. It wasn't a business where we were offering, sir. It was like, people love our ideas and they want a methodology to be able to do that in their own life. And my Virgo brain is really good at like content and curriculum. And so we whip up this amazing 12 week program and.

Have, I think we had like 60 people in our first cohort. And it was shocking. I remember having a conversation with my uncle and Erie who owned restaurants and an ice rink and all this stuff. And online business was like a little weird back then where it's like, Oh, this is bullshit. And whatever.

And we said, well, we just launched this before we got on the plane and we landed. And he's like, no way we, I opened the PayPal and he was in shock. He's like, wait, what's your overhead on that? And I was like, well, it's just time and energy. And he was like, what? And it was this whole conversation where his shock reverberated onto us and we're like, Oh yeah, this is a really big deal.

And so it was from that point on that a bar was set where it's like, anything is possible. This internet landscape is so vast. There's so much opportunity here. And we were at, we were ahead of the curb, this was before coaches were coaches is before Instagram and Facebook were really used for anything other than like connecting with college friends.

And we were utilizing it as a way to spread ideas, spread hope and offer invitations into a new world and a new conversation.

[01:07:37] LW: Yeah. And now you guys are at a point where 90, 000 launches just like Tuesday, 

[01:07:41] AP: Just a Tuesday.

[01:07:42] LW: expectations have probably well exceeded

[01:07:44] AP: Yes. Yeah.

[01:07:45] LW: But I want to shift, I want to shift the focus now because obviously your business, your, you have the bridge method. You have, you guys co wrote a book together now or never.

You have your own book, 50 ways to yay. And you have, you had soul school. I don't know if that's still

[01:08:00] AP: Yeah. I had that for 

[01:08:00] LW: have so many offering. Yeah. And you all are so expert, right? This is where it gets tricky because you're expert at introducing people to personal growth, to self awareness and taking them through a very internal experience.

It's not intellectual. You're going through all the different things yet in the background. There's a little bit of this going on. There's a little bit of tension. There's a little bit of struggle. There's strife and and you have access to all the best, relationship coaches and whatnot.

So let's talk a little bit about what happens when the honeymoon period wears off

[01:08:43] AP: Oh, that time?

[01:08:44] LW: And shit gets real in the relationship and their kids involved. And somebody floats the idea of maybe we should split up, but we're helping other people come together. Like, well, that's crazy.

It's like fucking meta, it's

[01:08:56] AP: It is. And I think that, that part of it, I think was the hardest for me. Like having perfectionism and like, again, that like endless student, like I can always find an answer. I think that was the hardest for me is like, we know all the tools. We have everything. Like, Yeah. Why can't we fix this?

Right. But that's been a huge part of my healing is going, but what if what's here doesn't need to be fixed? Like, what if this is actually the medicine? And so that's been a huge breakthrough because just for context, Preston and I go hard on pretty much everything we do. We are people who live a big life, have a big capacity for more and are constantly working on expanding our capacity to be able to hold more.

Cause we want so much out of life. So we do that with everything. We did it with work. We did it with traveling the world. We did it when we started having kids. We had four kids in four years back to back during COVID as a part of it, having twins during COVID moving California to Texas, like moving state, buying and building up our real estate portfolio, buying five houses, rental properties in a year launching two new businesses.

In that same year buying another house, renovating that house, which I was doing all the project management and design for also while raising these children and like raising business and raising life, right? Raising ourselves in life. So we found ourselves, like, always in it in terms of, like, we always had a project that needed our attention.

The kids were going through, sleep things, or the kids are sick. Like, there was always something to handle. Now, flashback to the good Greek woman and the independent woman is very good at always having something to handle. So in a way, I was. Thriving of always feeling needed. I'm so needed as a mom.

I'm so needed as a business woman, like crushing it. I'm so needed. I'm so useful. Look how useful I am. If I'm useful, I'm safe. If I'm useful, I'm loved. So I was just so useful. And because we were so in it. And there were these things that took precedence, whether it be work or family or the real estate project, our personal stuff kept getting swept.

Oh, we'll get to it. That's fine. We'll deal with it. Oh, we shouldn't do couple therapy this week because we have so much going on and that feels like a lot. So let's just and for years we just would sweep and those years weren't necessarily bad. Like, we have P and I are so good. We're like. Besties, right?

Like, we get along so well, we ideate well, we parent well, we co work well, like, it was more in the sense of both him and I felt the lack of aliveness within ourselves and that impacts the lack of aliveness together with relational spark. Like, relational connection, yes we had, but relational spark and depth of intimacy, we were lacking.

But again, sweep, sweep, sweep. Eventually that pile got so big that we were tripping over the dust pile we swept under the rug for years, and it got to the point where it's like, we are both not happy here. There is some major stuff that we need to look at, talk about. There's some major, for me, major self betrayal of like keeping the peace, doing the right thing, being a good woman.

And I've found myself, and again, hindsight, found myself trying to play the role of the good Greek woman at home, handling everything at the house, CEO of the house, mom of the fucking year, super woman at home. Ah, and. Independent boss Bay business woman who's handling the business, handling the admin, handling and overseeing the financials. And I was just like, I got it. But I didn't want to have it, but I thought that's who I had to be. Right. And so there's so much self betrayal where I wasn't honoring myself. I wasn't giving myself space, time to be a person that had a life outside of all these roles that I played and that massively impacted my career.

my relationship with myself, which inherently impacted my relationship with him. And so we had all these patterns that just kept playing and like my wounding played off of his wounding, which perfectly created more wounding for me, which created more patterning for him that we almost had to go, you know what, if this was all perfect and we both got to the point of like, we're done.

Like, we can't do this anymore. Once I started, once I realized that I'm like, Oh, I'm trying to fix this. I'm trying to find the answer. I'm trying. It's like, that's what I do everywhere. I don't let things just be what they are. Let me just have this be what it is. And that created such a different environment, a different culture where it's like, okay, I'm going to take 30 days where I'm just like, I'm not tending to you anymore as my husband.

Like I'm just tending to myself as a woman, our kids, our life still live in the same house, but we're very much going to like separate energetically. I just need to see what's here and you do the same. I'm going to do my work. You do your work. And after that 30 days, I kid you not, it wasn't even 30 days.

It was like two weeks. It became so clear to me that I was so deficient in my own aliveness, my own connection to myself, my own sense of feminine expression and embodiment. That's what I worked on and I went to work on that and felt so full felt so alive felt so inspired like I felt I don't want to say I found myself again because I found a whole new version of my woman that has never been online that I've never seen in my family.

It's like, I feel like I have found. The sovereign expression of my essence that's always been there, but was convoluted under all these patterns. From that woman, I could see his man differently. And he did his own work and found his man differently. And we came back together and said, okay, the relationship, the way it's been working is so good in so many ways, but the ways in which it's not has to go.

And so we actually ended our relationship, went to Burning Man, buried our rings from our first wedding and said, This marriage is done and we have now moved on to our second marriage, new rings, new commitment. We're going to have a new ceremony as well because we recognize we are completely different people and we had to evolve the arrangement.

The agreement, the partnership of our marriage to match who we've become through all this change, through all this growth, through all this evolution. And we actually chose back in and that's really powerful because I think instead of just like trying to make an old thing work. And like, fit ourselves into a paradigm of like, Hey, what if I do this?

If I bend over backwards this way, will that make it work? Well, what if I do this? Will that make it work? We were no longer willing to contort ourselves to make this thing work. We said, listen, we know we can co parent magically together. We know we can co work together. Like we'll still crush at life all the things we manage.

We can still do together, but the intimate piece, the relational piece, the spark piece, like we get to choose that and we get to. but from our sovereignty. And if we can do that, we got a real chance here and that's, three years back now and our relationship has never been better. It does not look the same.

Like people who have been there from the beginning and who were there like in the thick of it with us and see us now, they're like, wow, like I never thought this would be possible. And now all the tools that, we've heard of and we used and we studied, like we studied under the Gottman's to be relationship coaches.

Like we have the tools, but it was different because the tools weren't coming from, I'm going to do this so that we can be better. Yeah. Now the tools come from like, I want to do this so I can be better. And that is a completely different culture that we have that we're no longer trying to fix anything or the other person.

We're just trying to see what the invitation is for us. In this iteration of our relationship, which is really beautiful.

[01:17:01] LW: Wow. So it conjures up the Ram Dass quote. The best thing you can do for me is work on yourself. The best thing I can do for you is to work on myself. And look, I've been in the meditation game for, decades. And so I can look at a meditation. Offering and just know exactly, okay this probably is going to work.

This, these things are probably going to be a waste of time and blah, blah, blah. As people who are in the personal development space, you all also can do the same thing. You develop keen. Awareness around what works, what doesn't work. You mentioned the Gotman's is there a system or a mentor that you found to be most helpful in the relational challenges that you all have been navigating?

And if so, what is that system? Or is it about just creating your own thing, piecemealing it together based on studying a lot of different systems?

[01:17:54] AP: Yeah, I would say my approach is more piecemeal, but I'll say the biggest mentor for me in my darkest hour of that Breakdown into breakthrough was my body like I referenced my body as the greatest teacher, greatest source of wisdom. I actually came back to what if my body knows exactly what's needed?

What if my body expressed everything that's been unfelt without having to put words to it? Without having to understand it and process it and ask myself what it's connected to, like, what if I just move the energy and so I went deep into my semantics and my embodiment work and that changed everything for me because I recognize, especially as women, 

we live in a culture that devalues. Feminine qualities. We live in a culture that celebrates masculine drive, success, recognition, doing, building, producing, and yet like nurturance and care and love and creativity and spaciousness and nature. We're like, yeah, once I'm successful, I'll take time and enjoy those things. It's like those go on the shelf as something that we're like, It's a nice to have, but not a must.

And as women, we have been fighting for our position in the world post feminism. And we have without knowing it almost stuffed our feminine qualities to the side and now are having a harder time learning how to access it. So for me, coming back into the feminine qualities of living. Has been nothing short of monumental for me, because as someone who is such a go getter, so independent can produce drive, succeed in everything I touched to take space to move without a destination to be more nonlinear than like linear with a destination and drive.

Like it just opened my scope of an unlocked, like, Oh, there's enoughness in here. There's safety in here. There's. Self trust in here where I don't necessarily feel the need or the drive to have to produce to make more money to go to that next level of success. Like I used to. I'm still going to do it because why not?

It's fun, but I don't have to my sense of worth and safety. is not contingent on any of those things it's found within, but I had to get back into right relationship with my body. And that's where all my safety has come from.

[01:20:29] LW: So Preston accuses me of being a perfectionist. He's saying like, the reason you can't keep a relationship is because you, your standards are so high. And I find it ironic. Every guy who says that always has this beautiful woman that they're inside and out.

I'm like, dude, come on, man,

[01:20:45] AP: Easy for you to say, bro.

[01:20:46] LW: the kettle black. I want to talk a little bit about this idea of divine feminine and divine masculine. Cause I think those terms get thrown around a lot. and you probably have a lot of girlfriends who want to be in your situation. They look at you guys and they think relationship goals.

And what do you find for women that, you know, and you know what their aspirations are. What do you find that their blind spots are? What are their biggest challenges when it comes to calling in their partner?

[01:21:17] AP: I think the first thing is thinking that the relationship or the man is going to make them feel enough and safe and like they've arrived. That's the first one. So I have a joke that whenever I meet a woman that's like, Oh, I'm just like looking for my person and I can't wait. And once I find my person, then I'll, and I'm like, Then the work starts once you find your person then the work starts like

[01:21:43] LW: That's been class classes in session now.

[01:21:46] AP: is in session Because it's so easy to be a monk on the top of the mountain when there's no chaos around But can you hold your center in the most intimate vulnerable space that there is which is relationships?

And so to me, that's where all of our knowledge and all of our work gets tested. So that's number one. Number two, I think a lot of women really say, even women in relationship, like, I don't feel met by my man. Right. Like he's just like, he's amazing, but like emotionally and I challenge that.

It's not true in every case, but I find with a lot of the women I work with and a lot of the couples I work with. I find that when a woman's saying that, there's usually an undertone of, if she really had what she's asking for, she wouldn't be able to hold it. And I'll speak from my experience for so long, I was like, Oh, I just want to feel met by Preston.

I would, I don't feel seen by him. I don't feel understood by him. I don't feel like we're here. That was like my, that was my conversation when we were at our worst, I just don't feel met by him. And I could find so many justification, justifications for it. Yep. It's there. It's there. It's there. And people could say yep.

Therapists would say, yep. See, I see it too. Right. And so I was getting all this external justification. See. He's just not able to meet me in that level of depth. But when, again, when I went to my body's like, you're actually really afraid of being seen in that much depth. You actually are really afraid that someone's going to love you in that much depth. And I didn't know that until I felt that within myself. I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm actually afraid to feel it myself. I'm actually afraid to meet myself in the depth that I'm wanting this man to meet me in. I can't even meet myself in. So how can I expect him to do it? When I can't even do it for myself, when it's scary for me to.

And so, it's so easy to look at a person and go, you're the problem. It's this deficit. It's this not enoughness. But really we have to ask ourselves, am I the space for it? Right? Leadership. I had a whole thing like P leads in the world. No problem. He's like people, he'll say one thing, people will follow him to the ends of the earth.

But at home I'm like, man, I wish you would lead more with the housework. I wish you would leave more with the kids and like all the stuff that I'm like, I'm holding everything. And then, you know, when I got honest, ah, look at my martyr. Look at my martyr that wants to do all these things so that I'm useful and needed, wants to do it all so that if I hold it all, if I'm super women at home and in business, no one will ever leave me because I'm so needed.

And so that woman that got her safety met from doing it all and being it all and trying to be superwoman in every facet of my life also was so angry and resentful. I pointed it at him and said, it's your fault because you're not doing, but there was no space for him to do. I was resentful really at myself because I wasn't willing to let go of this role that created so much validation for myself, so much worth for myself, so much enoughness and safety for myself.

And if I actually like let go of all these things that I've identified as my safety knots, who am I now? Would he love me if I didn't do all these things? Would I be enough if I didn't do it all in work? And those are questions I had to like actually sit in the discomfort of and grapple with in real time.

And so I took like a major break from social media. I was gone for like two years. I just like let go of all these identifiers that felt really important to me at one point. I was like, okay, so who am I without this? I let go of soul school. Who am I without this? That was like my moneymaker. That was the thing where I had my community and my people and I just let go.

I let go of my podcast. I was like, who am I without this? And really just sunk into like, who am I in life without any identifiers? And like, it's a very mystical place to sit in, but it was so powerful for me because I actually found myself in the nothingness and then brought myself into the everything and said, okay, now I'm just going to bring myself everywhere. And like be attuned to that and be aligned to that. 

So I think women, again, like if we're resentful anywhere in our lives. Resentment is a byproduct of self betrayal. It's where we're not honoring ourself, where we're not taking care of ourselves. And yes, it's easy to look at the people in our lives and go, well, it's your fault, but we're not making room for any other possibility.

 We hear it all the time in personal development. It's like, take radical responsibility. And we're like yeah, I get that. I am, but we gotta get really honest and really, detailed in that conversation of radical responsibility. Not that everything's your fault, but like how are you co creating the culture in your relationship or lack thereof?

That is giving you the results that you have and we're at the center point of every relationship We have we're at the center point of every conflict we have and we can't change other people We can't control them, but we can change ourselves So to me, that's a really powerful place to sit in and it can be really You Sticky as well to take a look in the mirror and go, oh shit,

Okay, I see it now. I see it now.

[01:26:57] LW: So that part at the end, look at the mirror and see it because I, from my own experience, being someone who's been in the work themselves for decades, literally. Right. But I'm dating women who are typically younger than I am. One of the, Temptations is to point that out in the other person.

This is your problem. This is what you're not doing. This is what you're not seeing. That's the worst way to inspire somebody to want to step up and own their experience. do couples do that? Like where do you find that?

[01:27:29] AP: Yeah.

[01:27:29] LW: when you're with a conscious person someone who's also familiar with the terms and the taking self accountability and all this stuff.

Like, how do you? How have you guys been able to create that space for one another to arrive at those realizations and conclusions

[01:27:48] AP: I think the greatest,

[01:27:50] LW: while you're raising kids and managing houses and doing all the things.

[01:27:56] AP: Yeah. Well, it's funny, we both used to take the approach of. Oh, you need to do this. You're not doing this. And clearly that creates way more separation, way more resentment. So that wasn't working. But when we decided to take that time and like, let's find our sovereignty, like let's come back to our core essence outside of who we are in this Co dependent, high functioning relationship.

Who are we? When we took all the pressure off of like, you need to change, and I'm going to make sure you change in the way that I think is right. And we just said, what do I want? Like, who am I? Where is my work? That level, I'll speak for myself, my level of embodiment of my own truths and my own work was an inspiration to Pete.

And we speak vibrationally. I'm showing up from a whole new, like if you show it from enoughness, which I wasn't before. And again, it's not that it was conscious. Like I was super confident and like, you would never look at me and think I had an enoughness problem. Right. But it's so deep. It's so unconscious.

And it's a nervous system. It's a nervous system pattern that's built from zero to seven of like, who do I need to be safe? And when I didn't have internal safety, Preston or anybody in my space can feel that I need him to be a certain way in order for me to be safe, which creates on safety, right?

Because now it's like, oh, you don't accept me for who I am. I'm not safe. And that just keeps playing off each other of like, well, I need safety. Well, I need safety. And well, who's going to go first? That's never going to work. Right? So, because I find internal safety here. And I continue to cultivate who am I?

Do I have myself? What's internal safety? Am I boundaried? Am I following what I desire? Am I connected to my essence? Am I living that truth and attuned to that truth? That should, that's a different person who shows up in relationship. I no longer need Preston to show up any which way, left, right, center, up or down because I'm good.

I've got me and not from a hyper independence of, I don't need anyone, but like, I don't need you to change or contort yourself for me to feel safe because I feel safe. And so you show up as who you are, and then I'll decide, does that work for me? Does that make, does that add to my sense of safety or does it deplete from my sense of safety?

If who you are inherently depletes from my sense of safety, I've got my own back so much that I'll leave. But if it doesn't and it adds to it and it's an invitation for more expression and expansion and love, I'm here for it. And we got to that point. So I think we stopped trying to fix the other person took all that energy and attention that we're like you were throwing that energy out there and we put it all back here.

Ah, okay. Internal safety, sovereignty, regulation, wholeness. That's a different person that shows up in relationship and it's inspiring. Like I know there were certain times I would come back from my movement practice and. You just feel different. Like I've like cleaned the channel, right? I'm like fully clear.

I'm like fully expressed. And I'd come back and that energy is just like palpable. And he'd be like, I don't know what you did in there, but yes. Like whatever that is. Yes. And it's like, you don't even have to say anything. And that's the thing. Like I work with so many women, especially in my women's work with awaken the muse that are in contentious patterns with their partners married for years, most of them have kids and they're just in these.

Repeated can contentious patterns and I just say, work on yourself, just like act, like awaken this part of you, like just pour into yourself and just see, and they, take all the pressure off and they put it all here and sure enough, without doing much on the partner, the husband, everything changes because the root.

The source of everything changes. When that changes, it ripples out and impacts and affects everything. Everything has to change along with it.

[01:31:53] LW: So, in doing my own self work and understanding a little bit about what you all do A lot of it is based on frameworks, right? You find a framework that works for both partners in order to find that safe space within yourself. However, let's be honest, women a lot of times are very loyal to their emotions, their emotional state, which can negate.

whatever the framework was, which is a very masculine way of approaching, reconciliation. So, and one thing Preston said that I, that was profound for me, I've heard him say it before, but for some reason it just hit different during our interview was we had an agreement, you, meaning you and him, you guys had an agreement that you would never break up at the bottom, emotional bottom.

You would always, get back to the top and then decide whether or not you want it to stay together, which I think is very cool. But it's a framework, it's a masculine framework. And for women who listen to this and who agree with that, how do you override your emotions? Because I think men don't appreciate the depth to which women can feel those emotions and be informed by those emotions because they have saved you.

Like you said, when you were in that car with the guy with the gun. Your body told you do not stay in this situation. So if you're in a relationship where you're feeling the same thing, your body's like do not stay in this situation. And maybe it's because you haven't done the work to heal that part of your body because it's reminding you of what you're used to when you grew up or whatever the reason is, how do you override that?

If another part of you says, well, maybe we should get back to the top, right? How do you deal with, how do you navigate those two polar opposites to abide by the framework that you all agreed upon when things were

[01:33:39] AP: yeah, so again, when we try to intellectualize or understand or process what we're feeling, I think that's when we get into trouble. And this is where I think, it's very countercultural to say, but I think therapy can sometimes help. Be worse for a couple because you're trying to like dredge up and talk about and understand.

And I think understanding core wounds and core things are great. But after that, like we, as humans are so far from the practice of just feel it, like feel it without naming it, feel it without understanding it, feel it without having it mean something and then have to turn into a conversation. Like, All emotion is energy in motion and it's not in motion.

Cause most of us stuff it down and go, no, not right now. It's not the right time. Don't talk about it. And then when we have a little bit of an opening, we're like, and it all comes out. So I think women were relearning how to use our body as a tool. Like our body is the framework to actually move the energy.

without making it mean anything. So for instance, I had so much fucking rage within me when P and I were in it. And I could have pointed all that at him. And I would have had like very legitimate reason to do so. Right. But what I did was I took that. Energy that one would call rage. If I'm trying to process it and I just moved it.

I put on music. I did somatic work. I just moved the energy until it felt clear. Once it felt clear, I could then be in my full sovereignty without being run by this energy. That's literally circulating and has no place to go. If that energy is circulating, it has no place to go. And I open my mouth. I'm in trouble.

Cause now I'm opening my mouth from repressed rage, right? Versus if I move it and move that energy that's been stuck and clear the channel, then I come back into my body and can have a conversation from clarity, from clear body. Where I'm not repressed and throwing it. I'm in my regulation. I'm in my safety.

I'm in my center. That's a whole different type of conversation and listening. Because again, if I'm cycling rage or sadness or grief, or whatever it is, I'm listening, our reticular activating system is literally on high alert, looking for things just to get an activation for that. So it can release. But if I just release it and be proactive and move energy daily as a practice, just like I take a shower, brush my teeth, I'm clearing out the channel.

And again, most women were not taught. Number one, we're not taught these things. Number two, we're not taught that movement and your body is a valuable way To source your power, we're taught you can objectify your body and use it for power to manipulate, but we don't, we're not taught that the body is the Oracle.

The body is the source of all wisdom, all safety, all confidence, all trust, all truth and yet we objectify that very thing. That's our power. Talking superpower we objectify it. Oh, how does my body need to look for you to love me? Oh, how do I need to stay young? So you accept me. And we literally can tort and use this thing.

That's our superpower as our kryptonite. And so we got to take our power back and get back into the right relationship with it. So to me, it's, you clear the channel, The framework is get back into the body, clear the channel, feel it without having to name it, without having to intellectualize it, because when we do that, we get ourselves in trouble.

[01:37:10] LW: And this is exactly what you guys teach people to do in the bridge experience. Can you give us a little bit of a preview of like, what sorts of activities, what sorts of movements do you all expose people to that will help them get to the other side of this and reclaim power and agency over their body?

[01:37:27] AP: Yeah. So, so it's a variety. It's very dynamic. And what we do is essentially we work with a lot of people who have been in personal development for a really long time. So they know a lot, which is awesome. And we say, okay, everything you know is amazing. We're not going to negate that, but now we're going to see what shows up in your body in certain scenarios.

Cause we're working on healing the nervous system, which means we have to feel all the unfelts. So we have practices for that. But then we're also working on building capacity, which means we need to expand just past our comfort zone of what our body feels like, Oh, I can handle this to actually expand.

And then we regulate into that new space to create a new baseline. So we do embodiment practices that deal with intimacy. That deal with rage that deal with leadership that deal with all these different facets of what it means to be human to see. Well, okay, you know, all this stuff, but what shows up in your body when given the opportunity for intimacy and like, close relation, not sex, right? But like close relationship with another being, what shows up when you, with the attentions on you and you're asked to express what shows up in a leadership position, what shows up with rage, what shows up with choice and choosing yourself. And so we put your body into all these scenarios that it can't win.

Your body doesn't lie. So there's no way to like fake the funk and like manipulate your way into, how do I win this? Your brain's going to try. And we set the whole workshop up, shop up, both weekends is set literally for your brain to go, I can't win that. So then it relies on the body and the body goes, okay, let's go to what we know in this category and your body's quickly going to go to default.

And we see what the default is. We shift our relationship to it because most of us will judge it and go, Oh, I can't believe that's what showed up. We create a new relationship with like, isn't that interesting? And we repattern your body. Over and over again. Isn't this interesting? What do I choose now?

And so your body is literally getting practice over the course of two weekends of clearing the channel moving all that stuck energy and then coming back into regulation in these expanded kind of Uncomfortable moments to go I can actually hold more than I think And that combination, it's like a one, two punch of identity change.

Everybody wants to affect the identity at the mental level of like, who do I understand myself to be? What is my personality? Like I'm a human, you know, what's my human design? Am I Enneagram? And like, we want to understand identity from this intellectual level. But truthfully, what is governing and dictating your identity is your nervous system.

And if your nervous system doesn't feel safe, A certain identity will pop up in a certain scenario. That's why some people are like, Oh, at work I crush, I'm so good at this and dah, but then I come home and my relationship. And I'm a different person and I can't hold my backbone and, so we really try to find like, who is the sovereign being, the core essence of who you are underneath all these different roles you play.

Can we clear that and teach you how to be in relationship with it so that you can move through anything that shows up in the world powerfully. And just a quick story to touch back, like when P and I were in, what was it? Arguably the hardest time of my life for sure, because, just had a newborn cash or youngest kid.

It was just born. P and R are talking about getting divorced. Like, we got all these things happening, including a brand new baby. It was just so there's so much. I am so proud of how I walked that time, like I walked it with so much dignity with so much grace, with so much self care because I had those tools.

And all the mental tools that Preston and I have collected in our toolbox over the course of, two decades, all those are awesome, but the mental tools will fail you when the body doesn't feel safe. And that's why we knew all the right things, but it wasn't working because we weren't in touch with our bodies.

And the one tool that kept me like sane through all that was like having my body in regulation and safety and having myself in that space to hold me through my grief, through my rage, through everything. I was like, ah, I can do this. And it just had me understand myself in such a deeper way of like, I finally got tested, like really tested on all the things that we taught for years.

And it's like, you're like, Oh yeah, I understand the stuff, but I got thrown in the fire. Like, well, let's see how well you know it. And it's like, okay, let's go. And it was really beautiful for me to be like, Yep. Now I double down on this work even more because like I've walked it in the deepest, darkest time of my life and it like, I wouldn't be here without that.

[01:42:11] LW: When Cash and the other kids are being interviewed on a podcast 30 years from now, and the host says, how did you experience your parents when you were growing up? What would you like for them to say?

[01:42:24] AP: Well, I'd like for them to say a lot of awesome things obviously, but I, I also hope they, they say a lot of true things, you know, like I want to raise my kids to feel like they can speak freely and honestly and still be loved. And embraced and accepted by me. Cause I grew up very unintentionally from my parents, but I grew up of like, it's gotta look a certain way.

Like, Oh, like we're stepping into this person's house. Make sure you're, you act well and everything's on good behavior. And I want my kids to know that no matter how they show up, they are loved. They are accepted. They are seen. They are celebrated not for what they do, but for who they are. And just being born.

makes them worthy of that. And so I hope whatever they say is a reflection of that. And it's honest.

[01:43:11] LW: And how do you think about success these days? You guys have all the money in the world, and all these houses, and all these experiences, and

[01:43:17] AP: Yeah.

[01:43:18] LW: your idea of success?

[01:43:19] AP: Aliveness. Like I, I know a lot of people with a lot of money. And again I've been fortunate over the course of my lifetime to meet some of the wealthiest people in the world and to see the ache that something's missing. Like, I think I got an early taste of like. The, is this all there is?

And so to me, like success is someone that if you've got 0 in your bank account or a million or a billion, you're like, I'm alive to feel it. The good, the bad, the ugly, everything in between like that to me, it's like, That's when you get life. Like you win the game of life when you get that, this is it. Like, this is it. This is the moment we've been praying for. I've worked my entire life for this moment. Even if this moment is like the craziest, darkest tunnel I've ever walked through.

Like you wanted this. You're here and you're alive to feel it. Like how blessed are we that we have the contrast of like joy and pleasure and aliveness, which most of us don't actually stop to feel and appreciate. We're like, yeah, onto the next thing. Like very consumeristic. Like gimme more. It's not enough yet.

So most of us don't even stop to feel the joy that we're so hungry for. And then the pain, most of us don't feel the pain 'cause we feel like we'll get lost in it. But to me the pain is what humbles us. It's what reminds us that. This is a gift. Life is the gift. And sometimes we take things for granted.

And I think for me, that's the lesson with everything that happened with P and I is we were in so much pain that we were avoiding for so long, but to actually go, what if we were supposed to feel all of this? That pain was our teacher and that pain led us to everything that we were missing the whole time.

And so aliveness.

[01:45:01] LW: Beautiful. Awesome. Thank you so much. I um, every now and again I'll have a conversation where I'm just reminded of why I started this podcast and how impactful it can be for myself personally, as well as for the listeners. And this was one of those conversations you were so generous in your share. And I just wanna acknowledge you for all of the gifts that you have.

Directly and indirectly brought into my life as well as into many, people's lives, probably millions of lives at this point and and I'm just grateful that. You and I are friends and and we could hop on and have this conversation and hopefully we can do it again now that you've been on and you've, I always like to start through the first conversation talking about the backstory, but I want to bring you back on and I'm going to go deeper into like femininity and

[01:45:48] AP: it.

[01:45:49] LW: everything and break all that down because you have such a rich perspective on these concepts. And not just intellectual either. It's like you live this stuff. And I think that it could be very helpful to to tell stories related to it. So thank you.

Thank you so much for agreeing to come on. And I'm looking forward to publishing this the week after Preston's episode airs.

[01:46:14] AP: Thank you for a really thoughtful interview. You asked some really powerful questions that I've never been asked before, and that's some big stuff. Being in the game for a long time, I'm asked a lot of the same questions. So thank you for being really thoughtful and intentional with it.

[01:46:28] LW: Absolutely. Absolutely. And if anybody's listening to this, who resonated with that you are facilitating in the bridge experience. What's the best way for them to get more information about

[01:46:38] AP: Yep, bridge experience dot com. You can find me basically at Alexi Panos dot com everywhere online. But come work with us in person is where all that stuff that you learn and have so much knowledge around. That's when we get to integrate it and embody it. So come see me.

[01:46:54] LW: Beautiful. Thank you. 

Thank you for tuning into today's episode with Alexi Panos. For more of Alexi's work on embodiment and transformation, you can find her on the socials at Alexi Panos. And if you enjoy today's conversation, you definitely want to check out episode 2 64 with her husband, Preston Smiles, where he shares how blending spiritual principles with practical action can create extraordinary success.

Also, don't miss episode 200 with Lori Harder, who like Alexi transformed her life from humble beginnings, to building a global movement that helps women find their purpose and create lasting success. 

 And if you know of someone out there who's making the world a better place through conscious leadership, please send me your guest suggestions at light at light Watkins dot com.

Also, please take a few seconds to rate and review the show. I hope to see you for another inspiring story of ordinary people doing extraordinary things. And until then, keep trusting your intuition, keep following your heart, keep taking those leaps of faith. And remember, if no one's told you lately that they believe in you, I believe in you.

Thank you and have a fantastic day and I'll see you for the next plot twist this Friday.