232: How to Redeem Your Life, Break the Cycle of Violence, and Inspire Change with Cobe Williams, Professional Peacemaker and Author of "Interrupting Violence"

In this episode of The Light Watkins Show, Light Watkins sits down with Cobe Williams, a true example of transformation and redemption. Cobe’s story is one of overcoming incredible odds and breaking free from a life of violence. Growing up on the South Side of Chicago, Cobe followed in the footsteps of his father, a gang member, and spent years in and out of prison. But his journey didn’t end there.

After multiple incarcerations, Cobe decided to turn his life around, inspired by the desire to be a better father for his son. Today, Cobe is a professional peacemaker, working with Cure Violence Global to mediate conflicts, mentor at-risk youth, and prevent violence in inner-city communities. His work is a powerful reminder that it’s never too late to change your path and make a positive impact on the world.

In this conversation, Light and Cobe dive deep into the moments that shaped Cobe’s life, from his early experiences with his father to the pivotal moment that set him on a new course. They discuss the challenges of life after prison, the importance of building trust within communities, and the incredible power of redemption.

Listeners will learn how Cobe uses his past experiences to connect with young people, helping them see that there’s a way out of the cycle of violence. This episode offers practical insights into how anyone can inspire change in their own lives and in the lives of others. Whether you’re interested in community work, personal growth, or simply hearing a powerful story of redemption, this episode is not to be missed.

Transcript

CW: “I remember at an early age, my father was selling drugs. I could be in the car with him. And he'll tell me, hold this son, hold this, hold this at a young age. Hold this because  if the police pull us over, they ain't gonna search your kid. My father was my hero and growing up. That's what I want to be like I want to be like him and nobody could tell me that different and guess what all my life I knew right for wrong, but I still chose to go this route. Looking back at it, It's like this what I lost things right there. It seemed it cool, my father in Cadillac cars, big hats, tailor-made suits, meat coats, and looking all fly and all that. So I wanted to be like my father.”

[INTRODUCTION]

Hello friends, and welcome back to The Light Watkins Show. I'm Light Watkins, and I love to interview ordinary folks just like you and me who've taken extraordinary leaps of faith in the direction of their path, their purpose, or what they've identified as their mission in life. And in doing so, they've been able to positively impact and inspire the lives of many other people who've either heard about their story or who've witnessed them in action or people who've directly benefited from their work.

And what I found after conducting hundreds of interviews with luminaries who found their purpose is that there was always a moment where they hit upon some sort of internal crossroads where they could either go in the direction of being normal and fitting in or they could go further in the direction of being themselves.

And 99.9% of the time, the people who end up finding their calling, their purpose, their path in life are the ones who choose and sometimes against all of the odds to be themselves, to be authentic. And it's really that simple. 

And I think we need to hear these stories over and over and over in order to build up the courage and the confidence to do the same thing in our lives, to keep choosing authenticity. It's not just about making one choice in order to find your calling and to properly see it through. You're going to have to make that choice hundreds, if not thousands of times, because as you get older, you start to realize that the world isn't set up for people to be themselves. So it's an extremely scary and uncertain process to choose yourself again and again.

And I know from experience how much you will constantly question yourself and your path. But if you can stick with it, eventually you become the model for what it's like when somebody follows their path. And that's when people want to write books about you. And that's when people want to invite you onto their podcasts to hear your story. 

And today I'm in conversation with archetype of that blueprint that I just described. His name is Cobe Williams. Cobe is a pivotal figure in community violence intervention, particularly with his work in an organization called Cure Violence Global. Cobe was raised on the south side of Chicago. His father was heavily involved in gangs and drug dealing, and Cobe ended up following a similar path.

But after multiple stints in prison, Cobe decided that enough was enough, and he made a choice to turn his life around. And ever since then, he began working as a violence interrupter. And he's an advocate for the importance of redemption, community engagement, and nonjudgmental support at risk youth. 

And today, Cobe works to build relationships within inner city communities while mediating conflicts and mentoring local youth, other young people who were just like him to help prevent violence between those young people. 

And in our conversation, we talk about Cobe's multiple incarcerations and how his son inspired him to change course. We talked about how someone can become a credible messenger in order to build trust within those inner city communities. How Cobe was able to recruit the NBA player, Joakim Noah, to help him amplify his message and the difficulties of life after leaving prison and much, much more. This was a really insightful interview. I think you're going to find Cobe's perspective, his personality, and his experience is extremely eyeopening. So let's just get into it. Without further ado, I introduce you to the fascinating world of Mr. Cobe. Williams.

[00:04:45] LW: When you grew up in the South side of Chicago. Your parents were together, your mom was taking care of you and your two siblings. You were the baby of the family. Your dad was in a gang. So, my question to you is, I know you were only 3 years old when he went away, but you did visit him, in hour long blocks over those next several yearswhen he went to jail.

[00:05:10] CW: In prison, yes. 

[00:05:10] LW: So, in your earlier years, what life lessons did you remember your dad, the gang member, the convict teaching you as a young person? Was he trying to persuade you not to get involved or shoot straight? Or what do you remember from him at that time? 

[00:05:30] CW: I remember one saying he always had told me, and I remember that use all the time. He say, everything goes on in your mind and got to come out your mouth. Always think, don't just say this, but also I remember this. Like, you say, my father was in a gang street organization and I wanted to be like him, but at a young age, you know what my father used to tell me?

It's okay to be a part of that because he has a black disciple, right? So he used to tell me this Cobe, son, Jesus was a disciple. So it's okay. There's something i'll never forget. This is something my father used to tell me at a young age. I used to remember that so much but coming home. Even when me going to prison to see him going to visit him. His friends have been in the visiting room, teaching me how to throw up the gang signs on visits. So remember I'm a kid now and I still got pictures and every day to show all that, but they're teaching me that.

So growing up, I thought that was always cool. So this is what I saw, at an early age, Like my father was selling drugs. I could be in the car with him. And he'll tell me, hold this son, hold this, hold this at a young age. Hold this because if the police pull us over, they ain't gonna search you, your kid. So I remember things like that. So like I said, my father was my hero and growing up. That's what I want to be like I want to be like him and nobody could tell me that different and guess what all my life I knew right for wrong, but I still chose to go this route now.

Looking back at it, it's like this what I lost things right there. It seemed it cool. My father in Cadillac cars big hats, tailor-made suits, meat coats, and looking all fly and all that. So I wanted to be like my father. 

[00:07:23] LW: And then your grandmother, who you were close with, is that your dad's mom or was that your mom's mom?

So talk about that relationship. what did you learn from her that was in contrast to what you were seeing with your father and learning from your mother? 

[00:07:37] CW: No, my mother, mom. So my grandmother and my grandfather. I've learned a lot because both of them was together. And my grandfather was a hardworking man and all that. And I remember my grandma had always had a business, a lounge, and you saw that in the documentary to interrupt us. She always had a business.

[00:07:52] LW: That was her lounge that you guys were all dancing in? 

[00:07:55] CW: Yes, that was my grandmother lounge and that's like a third one. So growing up as a kid, she always had a lounge and I remember she used to pay me to clean up and sweep and mop. You know different things like that and the lounge; stock beer and different things like that. But my grandfather used to always come home for work and when he come home payday was Thursday, he just give my grandmother the whole check. Take care of all the bills, do this and do that. He ain't keep none of the money just get to my grandmama. My grandmother stayed on me, stop hanging on the corner, start hanging with them boys, stop doing this and that.

And my grandfather, I used to see him going to work every day and provide for the house. And on the weekends, all my cousins, all us used to sleep over grandma house. It'd be like 12 or 13 jobs in the front room under the table and everywhere, every weekend. 

[00:08:44] LW: And so she was teaching you discipline by having you work and sweep up in the lounge.

[00:08:49] CW: Yeah. And she's used to always stay on me about being on the corner and being out and telling me to come in the house at a decent time. And who not to hang with, don't hang around them crew, them groups and the guys and all that. She was just in my ear. And always remind me anything I need come to her, cause like I said at that time, my father, he has back and forth, he has in jail, but he is probably dead at this time. And my mother, she was doing the best she can to raise us when she was using drugs, at that time. So I was always hanging on my grandmother in that house. My grandma. 

[00:09:23] LW: Okay. So you said 22 violent events occurred during your childhood that basically defined your childhood. One was the one that sent your dad to prison. What happened when he got out. Can you talk a little bit about those two events? 

[00:09:38] CW: Yeah. so, when I first heard about my daddy, my uncle, and then they used to always share with me what sent him to prison. So they say they all said the lounge and people came in there just shooting at everybody is shooting at him. He happened to have a gun on him. So he ended up getting charged self defense cause people came in there shooting, but he had a gun and he shot her and the guy died. I used to hear that so much. I'm talking about from my uncles and hit my father, friends on the block in the neighborhood.

Like man, they used to call him superfly. Like the movie Superfly. Silky smooth, Slick Rick. Man, he wasn't nothing to play with. So I'm hearing all this stuff, I'm like man. And I'm seeing pictures and him with, like I say, suits and hats and all that, like, man, okay, okay. I want to be like him. That's my role model. So that's the piece I saw him when he came home. The little time I was able to, to spend time with him, but I'm hearing all these stories before he went to prison, like, man, Rick went there to play with, he wasn't no joke and different things like that.

So hearing that, then seeing that piece. Then I see myself following his footsteps, right? When I say following his footsteps, I end up going to prison. And I remember this like yesterday where I was going to prison and I went to this place called Galesburg.

And you know how you come like, I mean, you don't know. I'm not saying you and receiving, like I'm getting processed in and I’m looking at this dude, man. He looked familiar. That's how I'm looking here old timer. So I had a chance to talk to him cause he worked in the upfront like when you first get off the bus and help you get a situated.

I say, man, what's your name? He told me his name. I said, Rick. Yeah, I know Rick, because it's really like Arthur Hoover Jones. He said, Arthur Hoover Jones. I said, my daddy, Rick, I was 79. I'm his son, Cobe. What? You Rick son? They embraced me right away. you know what I'm saying? Moving the line though for me, give me special privilege and while I'm in the penitentiary, I'm a shorty.

I'm saying I'm young. It's like, Oh, Rick's on down here, man. they embraced me and made sure I was super cool and different things like that. So I'm like my mama, no one else call. They say you straight because everybody know you down there and different things like that. So I felt the pride, I mean, I felt some type of way like, yeah, yeah, I'm Rickson, and all that. 

[00:11:58] LW: You went to prison after being involved in the shootout, even though you didn't have a gun, right? Is that what put you in prison? 

[00:12:05] CW: Yeah, I went to prison about three or four times. 

[00:12:07] LW: Okay. But that was the last time. Yeah. 

[00:12:10] CW: Oh, the last time I went to prison, was incarcerated was a possession case. 

[00:12:15] LW: Was that the case where you didn't have a gun though, but they were, charging you with possession?

[00:12:20] CW: Yeah. A few times. Yeah. I think it's two incidents like that. 

[00:12:25] LW: So how much time total did you spend in prison? 

[00:12:28] CW: So I did like 10 to about 11 to 12 years, like not straight, three, four years here, three year, it was split up. 

[00:12:35] LW: And you mentioned in the book that Rico, charges is what the prosecutors normally use to target gang members.

Sofor the audience who's never heard of Rico, what does that mean and how does it target gang members? 

[00:12:50] CW: Yeah. A lot of times it's Rico charges, like say, if they called it like criminal enterprising, few people selling drugs or doing whatever they doing, that's how they bring everybody in like a Rico's cars, more like a conspiracy charge, the bigger indictment so they can have multiple people charged with this exact same thing. So a lot of times, when they be at people, that's how they do it. It's figure they could just snatch everybody up like that. 

[00:13:19] LW: And talk about the moment where you decided to turn things around. I think it was involving the train. 

[00:13:26] CW: Yeah. My son, the train where it was really. So I remember I was in the county jail going back and forth to court cause that's, like receiving period.

And my son was just born. I probably saw him one time. So when I saw him again, it's probably been a few years. So I'm coming out of the back out of lockup, handcuffs, shackled upmy son, mother, my sister, my mom, all them in court, coming to court for me. So as I'm coming out, I'm, I see him right away. He laid his eyes on me. I'm like, dad, and he comes to daddy, daddy. And the judge realized that we didn't see each other. He could see how emotional I got and all that. He had told the bailiff I never saw nothing like that. Take the handcuffs off of him. He let me embrace my son, hug him and all that.

I'm so happy and it's like in front of the everybody in the courtroom and the judge was nice to do that. And I know after I hit the case, because I knew I wasn't finna get out. So I knew I had to go back to lockup as I'm going back to lockup. My son turned around and I turned around cause I told my son, go see your mama.

She calling you all the time. She wasn't calling him, but I know I got to go this way. He going out that door. So I had him tell him to go that way. Once Quacey turned around, he just broke down in front of the whole courtroom. I want my daddy. I want my daddy. I want my daddy. So I just got so emotional. I just got told him tears coming out of my eyes.

I'm like, man, I need to be there for my son. So all I'm thinking about is I'm finna go back to lockup and I hope nobody will say that to me. Crazy because tears coming down and you crying, you don't want to feel some type of way. You know what I'm saying? When you in that setting, they make fun or they might say some crazy, and I was like, man, I ain't trying to go there, but I will if I had to.

So right there, I really start thinking then I ain't gonna just say that just help me make that change. And like the street organization, I was a part of the black disciples and I talked about it, but the founder of the organization, the one introduced me to siege for your time.

It's called Cure Violence Global. But the founder, the one introduced me to it. So once he say, man, Cobe, man, you need to do something different. He had just came home cause he had 28 years and all that. I said, man, we need to do something different and stay out here. So I stopped volunteer for six Friday then and different things like that.

I got laid off about two or three times cause funding issues and all that. And I say, man, I ain't going back to jail, man. I'm gonna just do what I got to do, man. To stay out here. 

[00:16:00] LW: So when you got out of jail, did you get early release or you did all your time? We did all my time.

You did all your time. 

[00:16:06] CW: Just did all my time. Okay. Yeah. 

[00:16:08] LW: Now, how did you stay out of trouble in jail? ? Well, assuming jail can, so a lot of times, you can be, I would stay outta trouble though as a gang member, you can sometimes be, tapped to do things to people or protect you.

You are a part of the gang in prison and obviously you can end up extending your time. How did you stay out that trouble? Did you change in prison and just tell the guys, Hey, no,

[00:16:29] CW: I ain't gonna sit up here and tell y'all changed in prison. 'cause I was gang banging in prison. Okay. we fight, I mean, I had a big say, so yes. So I'm in there fighting in prison and we gang banging in prison, really, fighting different groups and clicks and all types of stuff going on rash, jumping off and all types of things was taking place in prison.

So that piece I would say I changed why I was in prison. Cause I was still, calling the shots in prison. So, it wasn't all the way change, but 

[00:17:01] LW: you were still thinking about your son in the back of your mind. Like, I got to get, yeah, I'm thinking about my son.

[00:17:08] CW: Yeah, but I think I had got out and came back though. Remember, I say I went three or four times though. So. When I think about my son, that's younger years. I'm talking about when he was young, but I ended up going back probably twice after that though.

 So it had to be something like that. So I ended up going back twice. So my son was always in my head, but I was like, man, the streets is calling me I mean, I was still in it because one thing we always feel like coming from that environment. We always feel like we ain't gonna get caught. That's be the man said. Slickness You ain't gonna get in trouble You ain't gonna get this but I was trying to make sure my son was alright, but I still like man... 

[00:17:50] LW: People don't realize when you get out of prison, it's very difficult to work a regular job because you got to say that you were incarcerated. You're a felon, et cetera. So you can only really get menial jobs. Meanwhile, you got two kids, you got a family, you got to support them. So did you try to not be involved in street activity when you first got out of prison?

And is that why you ended up going back again? Because you could do better. 

[00:18:19] CW: first of all, it is hard when somebody get out of jail. Cause every time you have to fill out the application, you're going back and forth. Should you lie and say you ain't never been incarcerated, then let them catch it on their own.

And that's be our mindset. Like, man, I ain't finna volunteer none. If they catch it, they catch it. If they don't, they don't. And I hate to say it like that. And a lot of times they caught it. So I'm like, man, then like, man, what am I supposed to do? Sometimes and all that. So 

[00:18:45] LW: you can't get a bank account.

You can't get anything. 

[00:18:47] CW: You can't do nothing and people don't understand and I see it right now in real time when brothers and sisters get an opportunity, when they first get out of prison, they could be really successful though. And I'm saying the first 60 to 90 days after 90 days, they could get lost in the sauce real quick.

And I see that right now. I saw people change when they first got out, but they could get lost in the sauce real quick and sometimes people understand. That's why I say that redemption piece is real, man. It's like getting brothers and sister opportunity, man. That's real.

Cause it determined them what way, what direction they don't finna go. Guess what? Some people come home. They ain't got no family left. They passed in prison. Ain't got no mama. They ain't got no brother. Ain't got no sister. Ain't got no father. Or they did so much to family members. They don't want to have nothing to do with them.

 So it'd be, hard. But the biggest thing is after serving your time and people still look at you crazy. And now I experienced that when I was in prison and I got out of prison and went straight to Seattle, Washington.

And once I went to Seattle, I'm on a amtrak train. My auntie sent me a ticket, so I'm released. So they taken me, to put me on the train. From prison,

I'm shackled up in handcuffs, but I'm released. Now you hear me saying I'm free. They put me on the train, kept handcuffs on me and took off the handcuffs and everything in front of everybody so everybody could see me. And I felt so bad. I felt like, man, is this real? and guess what?

Once they did it, it's like everybody looking at me like, who is this? Like I'm a serial killer. on the train, they just put a serial killer. 

So it took me like 18 hours, two hours. I'm going to see out of Washington. Then met this nice family from Portland. Because Portland right before Seattle, 

It's this man, his wife, he had two kids. He looked at me. He's like, man, bro can we buy you lunch? Could we buy you dinner? On the train and all that. But I was so happy, but everybody looking at me crazy and all that. I'm like, man, I just did my time. I'm happy to be out of here, but it just show you, man.

Well, and I was so mad too. Cause I was mad at the officers, the people for doing me like that. And when anybody know, I just got out, it was crazy embarrassing. I felt some type of way. I'm happy that I'm out, but I still like, really? 

[00:21:30] LW: you said the, ex head of the gang got you involved in cure of violence.

[00:21:35] CW: Yeah, the founder of the group, Mr. Freeman, Jerome Shorty Freeman. He is the founder leader. 

[00:21:39] LW: how did you guys connect and what did he have to say to you to sort of inspire you to, get involved? 

[00:21:47] CW: So we've been connected because my father and him used to run together. So my father was a part of that same group and his nephews.

And his nieces, all of us went to elementary school, grammar school together. So all of us grew up together. So he know my family, I knew his family. We all like, family anyway. And he just used to just say, man, Cobe, what you don't do and all that, we need to do something different. And he'll just motivate me to do something different.

And I just stay consistent with it. I got laid off two or three times.how would d he contact you though? would he like, Oh,I was out before him when I knew he's home. I went to the house and going to see him and checking in with him and all that man. Hey, welcome home.

We happy to see you out here. And I was getting him the landscape of the land of the community. Like man, I was motivating him to write. You need to stay out here. You can't be doing this. You can't be doing that. He has asked me a lot of questions and we're just talking. He was talking and we just spent so much time together he has like grooming me educate me on a lot of different things. And talking to me on the record. 

[00:22:50] LW: He started, cure violence?

[00:22:52] CW: No, he has to found the group, the black street organization. We, so he was just working when he had started. He wasn't even working with two of us at that time. He just wants to see peace in the community. He just wants to see brothers and sisters come together. So he introduced me to it because put it like this, you saying he is working. He really was working, but he wasn't working on a rocket files. He wouldn't get paid, but he was helping keeping up so much violence down in the community because who he was.

[00:23:20] LW: So was this a paid position at Cure Violence? 

[00:23:24] CW: Oh yes. When I started working, yeah, it's just a paid position at Cure Violence. when I first started, I was a violence interrupter and my job was more like a firefighter. Like if a building burning down is blazing, the firemen come put out the blaze, right? Put out the fire. So my job is to dispute, conflicts and mediate conflicts, conflict resolution, all that. So my job was to stop people for shooting, killing each other. When people is beefing with each other, it's my job to deescalate these situations, talk people down at different things like that. And you have to be a credible messenger in front of communities who people respect and different things like that.

[00:24:05] LW: So you show up to work and I saw the documentary. So, you get a call, somebody's beefing on this corner. You guys hop in the car, you shoot over to that corner and then what? 

[00:24:19] CW: No, we shoot it. So keep in mind the areas we are working at in these communities are areas we born and raised in. We from these areas. So we have the relationship so we know what groups and cliques are over here. So when we go over there, we already know that. And we got relationships and most of them areas we came from ourself. So it's easy when you have them relationships and people know you and they know what you're doing every day to stop this madness.

[00:24:46] LW: So you show up and then does everybody know you kids on the corner? Do they know who you are? 

[00:24:51] CW: Yeah. A lot of them know me and I ain't going to sit up and just tell you, everybody know me, but the ones who need to know me, know me and a lot of them know me. And the ones I don't know I would get introduced to them by other people who know them.

So it's really just being out there in the community every day, building relationships. So say if I'm outside every day, walking the area, the target area, riding around in the target area, it's going to be a lot of people I know, it's going to be a lot of people I don't know, but I'll be out there building relationships every day with other people I don't know and the people I do know. There'll be introduced me to people. I don't know. 

[00:25:24] LW: So talk about the first couple of times you did this, cause now you're on the other side of things. cause I saw the documentary as well. you actually recruited other people to come out and be a part of that conversation and you saw them change. So what was your transformation like from doing this in theory to actually doing it in reality and seeing that how much of a difference you can make? 

[00:25:47] CW: I mean, it was easy to me though, right? And I'm saying that in a way because I'm from that community. It's like, I know the people. So doing the work is the easy part though, where people know you, I'm credible, my name is good in the neighborhood, people respect me. And they know I was sincere about the work. They know I was passionate. I was committed. And a lot of them knew I used to be out there with them though. So they respect that. And Mr. Freeman used to always say, man. Cobe, man, people respect you. And I mean, how they respect me, that's how they respect you. So I was always good in the community where people respected me in a great way. And I ain't saying respect me causesomeone cause of the past, but somehow cause what I was doing for the community, though. 

[00:26:35] LW: It's almost like you were born for that position and then all of the experiences you had, the going in and out of jail, the watching your father, the death, to the watch your mom get hooked on drugs. I mean, it's like exposed you to almost everything that these other kids were experiencing so they could relate to you and you didn't even have to say anything. You could see in your eyes and almost what you don't say that he knows exactly what I'm going through. 

[00:27:01] CW: Right, exactly. And the biggest thing is this meet people where they are without judging them not talking it down on them do a lot of listening not a lot of talking like man validate man. I hear you man. I hear you. Yeah, you let them know you really him and you understand him You ain't listening you ain't spinning them, right? You ain't I'm talking down them. You ain't I'm not working on you. Not hustling. Just like, man, what's up? Guess what? We'll do a barbecue. We'll do a cookout, man. Bring your family over there, man. Let's do a basketball tournament. Let's do that. Guess what? I got some Chicago Bulls ticket. I wanna bring you in the little homies with me to the basketball game. A lot of these guys never been off the block. So, I'm showing off something different.

Then, I'm bringing other people around. Celebrity figures like. Man, this such and such is, so it's all about building a relationship more than anything. That's all. 

[00:28:02] LW: So let's say someone's listening to this right now and they are related to somebody who's living that street life, right?

And making like boneheaded decisions and they're trying to break through to them, but they can't. And you're obviously not, you're where you are and maybe they're somewhere far away. Give us a playbook. Give us the roadmap, how do you get through? How do you make any kind of difference in a young kids mentality when you see them going in the wrong direction?

[00:28:32] CW: So first, and I say this all the time and I'm saying this, and I saw this, I've been doing it close to two years. The work we do is not for everybody. It's not. I know a lot of people passion. I know people care about this situation, love somebody to gun violence, but it take a special group of people to really do this work because some people got to know your approach. You got to know what to say and when to say it. And you can't say the wrong thing and rub somebody the wrong way. 

But most important, you got to be yourself. And like I say, you can't be judgmental. You meet them, these guys, these women where they are. So it's like coming out there, seeing them, what's up, showing them love. Man, what's up? What y'all got going on? You just building relationships when you starting off. You just build a relationship. They see you, man. Oh, what's up, man? Let them know, man. I'm here, man. If you need somebody to talk to, come talk to me. So it's all about that relationship piece.

It's critical. And seeing you, and you can't make promises to these young people. If you say you don't do something and you don't do it, it'll tear your whole credibility down. Man, they full of it. So they ain't going to say Cobe full of it. They don't say ceasefire you're full of it. So a lot of times. It's just really meeting where they at and being understanding with them, not judging them and listen to them. That's all you got to listen to them. We call it babysitting, right? You spending so much time with them, right? And when situations happen, you talking them down, but you also changing their mindset, you changing their thinking. And you can't sometimes come off like this, man. I know what you're going through because you don't. You could make situations worse than they are. 

And a lot of times this work is about psychology, where I tell people all the time in this line of work, you got to be thinking on your feet at all times. Because people don't come this way, come that way, come this way, come that way. The way I approach this situation, I ain't going to be able to approach that situation like that. I don't want to be able to take that. So it's all about that. And you, it's like a skill though. Like we do training, we do workshops and different things like that.

But I really believe, not sending no cocky way. Like you said earlier, I feel like this was for me. This like, this what I supposed to be doing, it's this work like this though. And connecting with people and all that, connecting with people and meeting with Ed, man, I love this. It feel good when I used to jump on the highway and going home and people call me like, man, Cobe, man, for saving our lives. Thank you for doing this. I felt like I was a hero. I really felt like I was a hero, but I don't look at it like that now. It's like, man, I'm just doing my job, but it feel good when you know you making a difference in somebody else's life. It feel great. 

[00:31:22] LW: Also, when you're on the street, you have to get good at reading people because that could be life or death if you don't understand what someone's intentions are in like a couple seconds. And I imagine being in prison accelerates that.

[00:31:37] CW: Yes, because you got to watch their body language, I mean, you watch their body language and the tone and it's important the words you use. 

[00:31:46] LW: I saw in the documentary when you were talking to, what's his name, who became the UPS driver later. The first time you interacted with him, you weren't really looking at him. You were kind of looking down and you were talking very slowly because his energy was really high and like he was looking for something to pop off. So I noticed that you very carefully just kind of, you were not, trying to deescalate the situation.

And maybe you weren't even aware that's what you were doing, but that's what it looked like when I saw it play out. 

[00:32:16] CW: Yeah, because a lot of times I try to size people up, right? And I'm trying to, what strategy I'm going to use to connect with them.

Because think about this, sometimes like I just sit up and say, you can say the wrong things to people and they mess things up. So I see one trying to hit this and that, but everybody get a soft bite and I got to hit that soft bite, but I don't want to say nothing. That's gone. Elevate him to go up. What about your kids? When you hit somebody kids like, Oh, whoa, whoa, some things that you, I'm saying the whole thing is you get people to think. 

[00:32:52] LW: And again, you know what it feels like? Because you had that moment. You had that moment. 

[00:32:57] CW: Yes, yes, yes. I definitely know what it feel like.

I mean, it's like in real time. I understand that. but I still don't want to throw it off. Like, man, I know what you're going through, but I really do know what you're going through, but I want to help him help me more where I can understand him more. And he could be receptive to me more. 

[00:33:22] LW: When I've read about your story. I don't mean to pump you up like this, but it resembles the Malcolm X story where you have somebody who's like, doing the wrong thing for a long time. They go to prison, they transform and they get out into the community and now they're doing the right thing. And they're essentially preaching a certain message that you don't have to do this. You don't have to live this life. And recruiting people into this organization of becoming a violence interrupter, and this goes on. 

And then after a while, certain people are better than other people at this. Certain people can get through to people more so. And that's why I say you remind me of Malcolm X because there are a lot of Muslims during Malcolm X is time, but he was the one that sort of rose up and people could relate to him more than other people. 

And he had the oratory skills and everything like that. And you have developed these relationships with various celebrities, and you've brought attention to the organization. So I want you just to talk a little bit about, that again, from the perspective of somebody listening to this, and maybe they're in a similar situation that you were in back when you first got out and they're very intent on making the world a better place and using their experience for good.

Do celebrities beat down the doors of these organizations, or do you have to go out and find these? Relationships and partnerships. How do you nurture these partnerships? and how does that whole thing happen? 

[00:35:01] CW: Yeah. So I think one of the main things is always, always live by this. Once I start dedicate my life to this, I put my all into it. Like I put my all to when I was doing nonsense. The street stuff. I put my all into it. So once I say I put my all into it, it's like once I changed my life, you don't have some people you could be somewhere. And I mean, people could do this work or do whatever, but some people could have one foot in one foot out. So I say, no, I'm putting my all into this. So once I started putting this all into this and doing the right thing, so many doors start open up for me. And I started meeting people. So Joakim watched the documentary or interrupt us. He sent a tweet out, say this a must see documentary. Everybody needs to watch it. I tweeted back. Thank you, Joakim for watching my movie. And he sent a tweet back, Cobe. If I could do anything to help you, let me know. I say yes, let's get together. He say, check your inbox. He sent me his number and all that. And I sent him my number. So I was in New York finna go screen the documentary at the United Nation because we are showing documentaries everywhere. And I see a six, four, six. I'm like, dang, I ain't tell nobody else coming to New York.

How'd they know I'm here? Because it'd be a lot of people we work with in a lot of places. You can't see all alone when you go. So I don't tell nobody I'm coming, cause I can't see everybody. And I don't want nobody being they feelings. I'm somebody in a good way.  Not like that. So I saw that. Who's this? Six, four, six. Hello. I said, hello. This is Joakim, your boy. I said, hello. Who? This is Joakim, your boy. I said, yeah, what's up, Joe? I said, I'm in New York right now. I'm at the United Nations for the screening of this movie and all that. He said, oh, you're in my backyard, because that's where he grew up at. He said, when you get back, I say it was the weekend. It had to be, I got back Sunday or that Monday. He said, Cobe. You get back Sunday or Monday, let's meet. And we met at PF change, bam, we hit it off right there. I wasn't asking him for no money. I wouldn't ask him about this and me and him here.

I say, man, bro, man, he said, man, he played for the Chicago bulls. He want to use his platform. And I say, Joa, that's great, man. But if you don't be all the way in for real, because I don't want them to get involved because these kids been let down all late life. I don't want to get involved. You don't be all the way in. You're not. And he said, man, I'm locked in with this. I really want to do it. That movie inspired me. 

[00:37:42] LW: How'd you meet Alex how'd you get him to put cameras in the hood and let these guys get films? I know you, they're paranoid about this. 

[00:37:51] CW: But it go back to relationships. So I met Alex and Steve James, Steve James is the one who made hoop dreams. Alice Collard, which is a bestseller book. They did a piece on ceasefire at the time in New York. That's when I first met them. Then there's bringing them back to do a documentary on cure violence. So a lot of people at the time didn't want to get involved because you never know how people are going to show you and all that.

And like you say, you couldn't take films that way. It's times I took them with me. put them cameras up. People don't want to get filmed. They want to do that. But we know what I respect about Alex and Steve James and Zach Piper. They say, Cobe, when a documentary is done, anything y'all don't want in there, we'll take out.

So they kept their word from the beginning. And man, Alex and Joakim and the brother, you saw another member of the Hispanic guy, Eddie. We so close all of us right now. I got an event coming up in Chicago. They'll be at and all that different things, but we do a lot together right now. 

[00:38:50] LW: Did Joa came ever say what inspired him to watch the documentary when he watched it?

[00:38:56] CW: Yes. Because he kept saying he'd been started his noise, our foundation, but he say his assistant called him. And Joe was always telling me how he wanted to get involved and all that. She said, here goes something for you right here. They interrupt us. And he said, that's what did it. And guess what? He brought a hundred copies and started passing out. So Derrick Rose and all the boys and everybody had so much respect for that guy, man. That's my brother. 

[00:39:22] LW: That's awesome. And okay. So you did a partnership with him followed through, which is something that you were very clear about.

If you're going to do this, you have to be all the way in on this. And that obviously brought more eyeballs to what you were doing. And then, so where does it go from there? So now you're a part of somebody else's organization, but you're bringing resources into the organization. Are you then tempted to create your own organization or just start working for Joa's organization?

[00:40:15] CW: So Joakim’s organization is Noah’s Arc Foundation. But him started the one city and this's under the north a. But Joa, man, it's like we just do stuff together, man. Me and him went to DOJ to go meet with the Department of Justice. We just locked in and he spent a lot of time in the community, but I respect him because. We used to go to the community so much. He ain't never had no security used to come by himself. 

We used to do barbecues cookout. he used to give me that hundreds of tickets throughout the year. The brain player, I mean, participants from the community and he'll come out and talk to him about the game. A lot of these people met Derrick Rose, Jimmy Butler, we started doing a tournament. He started coming out more and just put events together. He always on location. Always showed up early on, we used to, where the boys used to play in Deerfield, before they moved this way, where Jordan was playing, the practice center, the virtual center, we used to take kids out there.

So it's just been a perfect bond with me and my brother, man. That's my guy, Joakim, my guy. My forte, my guy used to be running back for Chicago Bulls and we just recruited Tony Allen. So he doing a lot and all that. And there's more NBA players than reaching out and want to get involved. 

[00:41:12] LW: And what do they do when they get involved? What does that mean exactly? So in the key to all this, we actually nobody for no money. Just come show the kids some love. Just come embrace them. Just show up, come to the tournament. Like we got a leadership work summit coming up for over 350 kids who played in the one city tournament.

[00:41:33] CW: And me, Joe, and Tony Allen and his mother gonna sit on the panel. So we got that coming up and all that and just really they just come to build relationships and just talk with 'em, listen to their stories and all that. 

[00:41:46] LW: And so what's the aim of when you guys have these safe street locations? What is the actual aim? 

[00:42:15] CW: Is it just to keep kids busy to introduce them. So basketball is just a hook to get him in there. So another thing I didn't get a chance to mention to you, Joakim went to Springfield and they gave him $2 million to do these tournaments and all that. So we pay all the kids, $50. The coaches, the assistant, coaches money, everybody apart and we keep everything community based. But the most important thing, basketball is just a hook to get them there. But they go through workshops, open show and teach them how to financial literacy, open up a bank account. How to resolve conflicts without shooting and killing each other, changing mindset, changing behavior, we educate them first.

So they go through the workshops, play ball, then they get paid. And now they build the relationship. So they don't see this guy and all that. So when they see people from different parts of the city now, like, man, I know him for the one city tournament, but let's get him a pass. We ain't going to do nothing to him. We know him now. So you don't got to look at people. Sometimes I know you heard the word op. You ain't got to look at personal as an opposition. Now you see this man, he good people, man. We played a tournament. They beat us last week. We don't try to beat the other team next week. We want to, and all that. But know what I love about what I always hear a lot is this, like a lot of these young people say, man, we got to go in the house early Friday because I'm ready for that basketball game. And we provide food for them and just everything. So it'd be a great thing. And guess what? Joakim show up and really show him love, other people show up and show him love. And we finally started taking some of these kids to Africa and different things like that. And bring some kids to Africa over there, over here. So it's just, trying to do our part, man, to get back to the community. 

[00:43:40] LW: Yeah. I saw on your Instagram, you guys went somewhere. Did you go again? It was like some foreign country. What was that about? 

[00:43:51] CW: Yeah, man, Joa. I mean, we was going there and met with the some of the NBA people there and all that because Joa, he invested over there NBA Africa.

Now, I mean, NBA BAL like Africa League. Want to just keep the relationships close where we could do things together. So it was a good trip. It's a learning trip. We went to Rwanda where the genocide happened at and all that. So it's a mind blowing man, thousands of hundreds of thousands of people got killed. 

[00:44:19] LW: Man, it was crazy.

Speaking of international conflict, right? Ceasefire has become a really big term now with what's going on in the Middle East, but you've been screaming ceasefire ceasefire. we've been doing this for 20 years, 20 years. And if someone told you 2025 years ago, Cobe, that your book was going to come out in 2024, July 2nd, and it was going to detail the whole story.

And it was going to be, writtenwith Joey and Joey G and. Josh G and Joe, what would you have thought if knowing that you're going to have a book out your first book, 

[00:44:56] CW: Man, that's crazy. You saying that, but man, I didn't never think like that. You don't send, like I say, me and Josh G been talking about it for a while.

Josh G he is the communication director. You know what I'm saying? For Cure Violence, it's each fighter at the time. So Josh is the one who helped get the interrupters documentary out there. when I say get out there, the communication to put it out there in different places and all that.

And we always, me and him was always talking about the book. And talking about we want to get a book out there and different things like that. But man, it took a lot of work. We'll start, we'll stop it. You know what I'm saying? But to see it really happening. You're right. ain't never saw this coming the people I met on the journey of this work and all that. I ain't never seen none of this , it's truly a blessing. But Alice Collowich of number one best built a bookseller got a big name. He did a for it for me. My brother, Joakim did it before. It is when I think about it, it's mind blowing. It's like, man, this is real. And I ain't never see me. Traveling all over the world like this, doing this violence prevention work. People use alcohol, but you ain't gonna live to see 18. You ain't going to see this.

You finally, your father footsteps. I would never tell no kid. They ain't gonna live to see 18. I would never tell nobody they wouldn't do this and do that. But man, I sit back, man. And I lost my mother a few years ago and my brother and my mom and brother used to always say, man, Cobe, man, my mom used to say, I love you. I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud. She used to tell me that. 

And my brother, man, I just fight with it sometimes that I ain't get no chance to really interview my mama. You know what I'm saying? And while we was writing the book, she was still alive. And jumping on the phone, but you know, that real sit down and I talked to my grandmother about that. That's the only thing kind of bothered me a lot. Like, but I'm glad to see she saw me get my life together though. My grandfather, my brother, my uncle and them and all that. Because they know the struggle I've been through in life period, but to see me get it right, man. Thank God for really, man, for letting them see that though, for real.

[00:47:11] LW: So the book is extremely detailed. I mean, you have conversation after conversation of things that happened, many, many years ago. And obviously when you write with Josh, when you write with anyone, a lot of that involves interviewing and talking about. The past and conjuring up old memories. How was that process for you?

Like what was it cathartic to sort of replay all of these different moments, these different scenes in your life and how did it transform you when you got to the end of that? Because I'm sure it was a very laborious process having to remember all of that in so much detail. 

[00:47:57] CW: Yeah, so it was, to remember things. And I ain't gonna lie early on, I kept going back and forth, right? how much I want to share, So I kept going back and forth, like, man, do I want to share this? Take this out, take this out. Then I kept saying, man, this is my story. And I always want my story just to inspire somebody else who probably went through what I went through or going through where I went through.

I just want to touch somebody because I remember when the documentary, the interrupters came out. It's so many people saying it touched them. And I saw people literally break down and cry to me, man, my hero, you really touched me and you really motivate me want to do more. you helped me forgive people who I thought was my enemy. That different things like that. So it's all about really just trying to use my voice to just help out. What was the concern? 

[00:48:51] LW: Why wouldn't you want to include things? 

[00:48:55] CW: My life, family, friends or whatever, even growing up, we always was taught not to say much. So I'm saying I changed my life. I'm saying I'm doing the right thing. I ain't doing that crazy, but it was like, how much I want to go, deep into this and that and share. 

[00:49:14] LW: But it was nothing like you weren't concerned about revealing any illegal things.

[00:49:19] CW: It wasn't that because I know I ain't going to say this. That could be incredible to anybody. I ain't going to do stuff like say that like that, but it's just like, how much I want to share, how much I don't. 

[00:49:28] LW: It really caused you to have to be vulnerable then going through that process.

[00:49:32] CW: Yeah, It was tough at times. 

[00:49:36] LW: Has it been optioned yet for a film? 

[00:49:39] CW: No, but I hope you help me get it out there to get one. Let's get it out there. Let's get it out there. Guide me in the right direction. 

[00:49:49] LW: So you have a tour planned. Has the tour started yet?

[00:49:53] CW: No. But I got a lot of stuff coming. Well, Chicago, we don't do some things before the second. I'm going to do something on the second in Miami. Joe King going to do something the following week. We got basketball championships coming up. We don't honor that. We got leadership summit. So we got some things just, coming up.

We still trying to figure things out. My goal is they say I need 5,000 copies sold to make the best seller list. So I'm trying to get it out there. So I'm working, man. I'm working whatever they do. I mean, I love me on the best seller, but whatever God got playing, got playing. I just want to use the story.

[00:50:31] LW: What are some of the things you want people to take away from reading your story?

[00:50:36] CW: I always say this. I want people to know it ain't how you start, it's how you finish. I want people to know redemption is real, man. You could come back. You could redeem yourself. I want people to know skills to what we do. So I want to educate people skills when you're doing mediation, conflict resolution, it's special skills.

I want people to know that. Even though the news and everybody might not share it all the time, but we really say lives out here. We really make a difference. We really have paid people, change their mindset, their thinking. And I just want people to know you're not alone. 

[00:51:11] LW: Arguably though, the kids who are on the street now are probably not reading a lot of books. Is this book written for them? Is it written for other people who could reach them? Who's your audience that you have in mind? 

[00:51:27] CW: I want to reach everybody, right? Everybody's my audience. But kids might not be reading a book, but guess what? They see them at these tournaments because we're talking to them. We're doing workshops with them. We're educating them. We're explaining things to them and all that. And we're being there for them. 

[00:51:42] LW: How old are Quinn and Latrell?

[00:51:44] CW: Now? So, I got four kids. So Quinn and Latreya are old now. They like 28, two of them and one of them 27. I got a daughter, 23 years old. So I got all big kids now. 

[00:51:57] LW: And what did they think about dad? 

[00:51:59] CW: They happy. They happy. They really happy. And they see the consistent consistency. I've been on it. And there's times I remember back then when I used to, I first started, they used to say, man, dad, can we talk about something else? We tied the end about siege fire. Let's talk about something else. 

[00:52:18] LW: You told a story in your Ted talk about your son, my son. Can you share that story?  

[00:52:24] CW: Yeah. Mediation. Yeah. So it was crazy. So I, got a son who stayed in trouble a little more than others. I would say that. And the school kept calling and I said like, man, what this man do now?

Because they called him for him, him only and call and call. And I say, man, what's that? Hello. Yeah. We just want to share something, which I say, all right, lay it on me. It's a big brawl. People was fighting and gathering and this and that and coming at each other jumped in the middle of it and deescalated.

He stopped them. He talked them down and he doing this and he doing that. So I was so happy to hear that. I was, so when he came home, he said, did the school call? I'm trying to act like I know they ain't call. I think they call, I'm just playing it off. But he is so angry. He's a man, the school don't call dad is good though.

My man good. But I did talk to him already. So I'm just messing with him and he was like, man, the school damn car. I said, so what happened? Man, there's clowning up there and I intervene that. I said, yeah, the school called me, man. I'm proud of you. So he said, dad, this year, I'm gonna get 10 mediations. So anytime we do a mediation, we document it. We got to perform. So I said, you did that mediation here. He followed her, document this. We want to track this. He said he don't get 10. I doubt he got that. He ain't getting no more mediation, but he still got that one and I still got it. So that was happy that He thought of me in that situation because that's what I do every day.

And a lot of times when I was going to work, when he was suspended or something, he was going with me. So he know everybody in the office and all that. So he see the stuff we used to do in real time though. So that made me feel proud. They made me proud though. 

[00:54:20] LW: Are you still going to mediate in person or are you mostly?

[00:54:25] CW: I do a lot of training, help people. Open up this programs all over. But once you do it, you don't stop because it's sometimes a personal relationships you have with people. People want you to come in because of the relationship. So I still do it the time to time. 

[00:54:41] LW: And then finally, what would you say is your definition of success? Having seen everything you've seen and done everything you've done. how are you viewing that for yourself? and for maybe young.

[00:54:53] CW: I see success, man. When I see a lot of brothers, sisters been in the community and they've been involved. With everything under the sun, right? I mean, banging, they doing this and doing that and see what he had. Now it's times like we have these people get jobs. We see people went back to school. We see people relocated a lot of times. So a lot of things we see people who are out there. Now they doing this work. Now it's a lot of people when I was doing it. The street part, now they doing the street part.

So we deputized them to do the work. So, and, to see them, how they changing, they think how they change their mindset and they own it and bringing people together and remaining neutral, not taking sides and different things like that. It's a wonderful thing, man. 

[00:55:41] LW: Beautiful, man. Well, look, I, really appreciate you coming on and sharing your story and putting out this body of work into the world.

And obviously it's hit a chord in a positive way with a lot of people. And I'm hoping to continue spreading that message and get more eyeballs and more people clicking through and looking at the stuff that you guys are doing. So if someone lives in a different part of the world and they want to support, contribute, what are some of the best ways to do that?

[00:56:14] CW: I would tell people, they see this interrupt the violence. com. They can go on a website and different things like that. And locally, if some people want to get involved in a city or different things like that, they could just look up a lot of this CVI work, right? Community violence intervention work. And it's a lot of local offices in different places like that. Or they could go on CVG.org. I will say CVG.org and learn more and reach out and whatever. 

[00:56:43] LW: How many offices are there today? 

[00:56:46] CW: So it's like 50 some, but it's changed every other day. Then we got a lot of stuff international, and a lot of CVG sites, hundreds and hundreds all over though.

[00:56:56] LW: And they take on volunteers. People can go in there and volunteer. 

[00:57:01] CW: Learn the work and do stuff like that and help out with community events and different things like that. 

[00:57:06] LW: Are there fundraisers? Do they accept donations?

[00:57:10] CW: Oh yeah, they accept a lot of donations. Yeah. 

[00:57:12] LW: Beautiful. Awesome. 

[00:57:14] CW: Let's spread this word. Interruptviolence.com. We need to get it out there. 

[00:57:19] LW: You're on the keynote speaking scene too. I imagine. Hopefully we'll get a chance to cross paths during that as well. All right, man. Thank you so much. Appreciate you. i'm imagining the book is going to be available everywhere books are sold.

And I want everybody to get a copy of this book and dive into a slice of your life. So thank you so much, man. 

[00:57:41] CW: And thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Thank you for tuning in to today's episode with Cobe Williams. You can follow Cobeon the socials at Cobe.Williams And Colby's book, interrupting violence is available everywhere books are sold. You can also find links to everything that we talked about. In our conversation in the show notes, which are at light Watkins. com slash podcast. And if you connect it with this interview, you also want to check out my past interviews with Shaka Senghor, who served five years in solitary confinement and he ended up writing a book while he was in the hole and that led him to an appearance with Oprah Winfrey. 

You also want to check out my second episode with Edwin Raymond. Edwin was the NYPD whistleblower who talks about how NYPD officers are essentially mandated to make a certain number of arrests and issue a certain number of summonses each month. Or they lose a lot of their fringe benefits. And if you're thinking of somebody else who you would like for me to talk to, I always love hearing your guest suggestions.

A lot of times, many of the guests who appear on my podcast. I first connected with them through recommendations or introductions. So if you have someone who you would like for me to bring onto the podcast, just email me their name. You can email it to light@lightwatkins.com. 

And a very simple way that you can help me make those interviews happen for you is just to leave me a rating or a review. It really does make a difference. Reviews help those potential guests see the reach and the impact of the show and how engaged of an audience we have, and it makes them much more likely to come on board. It just takes a quick moment. Look at your podcast app, click on the name of my show, scroll down past the first few episodes. You'll see a space with five blank stars. Click the star all the way on the right. If you want to leave us a five star rating, and if you're feeling generous, write a quick line about what you enjoyed in this show. And that will help go a long way as well. 

Also, you can watch these interviews on my YouTube channel ifw you prefer a visual element to the story, don't forget to subscribe there as well. And for those of you who crave a bit more, don't forget that the raw unedited versions of each podcast are available a day early in my happiness insiders online community. You can join us at the happiness insiders. com to access not only the full uncut interviews, but also my 108 day meditation challenge, my movement challenge, my healthy eating challenge, my walking challenge, cold exposure challenge, as well as a bunch of masterclasses that are all designed to help you become the best version of yourself.

And finally, You may have noticed that I'm now releasing bite sized plot twist episodes. Each Friday, the plot twist is a shorter clip from a past episode where the guest shares the story of that pivotal moment in their life trajectory, which is usually the moment when the plot of their life shifted away from the conventional thing that they were doing.

And it helped them learn something profound about life or to live with a greater sense of purpose. So look out for the plot twists each Friday. 

 And I hope to see you back here next week with another inspiring story of an ordinary person doing extraordinary things until then. Keep trusting your intuition. Keep following your heart. Keep taking those leaps of faith. And remember if no one has told you lately that they believe in you, I believe in you. Thank you so much. Have a fantastic day and see you for the next plot twist this Friday.